Non-Spoiling Foods

[feelahthetigress]

Hello everyone, I'm a long-time reader of the petsnails forums but I've only just now joined as a registered member. I know almost everyone here has the awesome Giant African Land Snails, but I only have some Helix Aspersa (can't have GALS because I'm in America).

I have a sort of nagging question about food. I know that fresh veggies and fruits are best (and I've read up on what foods are good/bad) but my problem is actually that the snails can't eat the food quickly enough before it spoils. For example, I'll buy one sweet potato and they'll only be able to eat about half of it before the thing starts to go bad and I have to throw it out. This is even worse with food that spoil more quickly such as cucumbers or tomatoes. I really want to give them a good variety of veggies for their diet, so I usually end up buying one sweet potato, and some lettuce, and some carrots, maybe mushrooms, etc. all at one time so they're not stuck eating only one thing for weeks at a time. I just wish there was something that I could keep on hand that I could feed them in between fresh stuff that would store a long time without spoiling so I can keep from buying/wasting so much fresh stuff. I've done a bit of reading on dry snail mixes that incorporate various seeds/oats (sounds like a good idea) or even using tortoise food but I was wondering if anyone had any other good ideas to share. Ideally I'm looking for something that will store for long periods of time on a shelf and is safe to feed snails regularly (I've read that some things should only be given sparingly/as treats). I'm wondering about feeding them some sort of reptile pellets or maybe algae wafers (the sort used to feed aquatic snails)? Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[shaydeesnail]

Use half of it to make yourself a meal and use small bits of each veggie to give to the snails? That's what I end up doing, we both get quite a bit of variety that way

Edit: Also, I tend to feed my snails every two days or so, I don't think it matters to feed them one food per feeding, as long as they get something different next time you feed them.

[feelahthetigress]

Hmm...Good point. I stupidly hadn't realized that they don't need 4 different kinds of stuff in one feeding so long as they get something different each time. I do try to give them veggies leftover from my other meals, but I do usually end up getting them veggies that are specifically for them just because I'm afraid I'll run out in between shopping trips (especially if I'm eating most of the veggies myself). Some of them spoil anyway before the next shopping trip (I recently had to throw out half a large cucumber because it molded before I could use it up). Anyways, I'm still interested in any shelf-stable long-term storage foods such as snail mix or some kind of pellet for those annoying little gaps. Thanks for responding though!

[shaydeesnail]

Fish food and tortoise pellets can be stored for ages, I wouldn't give them too much fish food as it makes them quite fat! Not sure what the tortoise food is made of though, so I've no idea how often you can feed it. I made some "snail cookies" from fish food mashed into blended vegetables with some calcium carbonate, I store them in the freezer. I bet they could be dried in a dehydrator or a low temp oven for long storage, too. That way could just rehydrate them at feeding time.

[actos]

I like the "snail cookies" idea, shaydeesnail! At the moment, I don't mix/blend anything for Dave and his babies, just plain veg and fruit, and occasional presoaked cat crunchies for Dave. He likes it a lot, but is full for a couple of days after getting some, cat biscuits are very nutritious and have much more protein compared to veggies.

I have dry cat food on hand, as I have 2 cats, so that's a regular supply of non-spoiling food!

[tsrebel]

Tortoise pellets should be safe if they will eat it. I use sun flower seeds. They can be stored fore quite some time and the snails love them. If they're not eaten at once, they'll be eaten when they sprout. There is also a powdered diet for geckos to mix with water. Very nutritious and my snails love it. Make sure to just mix small amounts, as it molds fast once it is mixed with water.
Good luck!

[shaydeesnail]

Thanks Actos ^^ I remember seeing snail food on Ebay too, some sort of powder. I think it's aimed at African snails but I don't see why it wouldn't work for all. I try not to blend much of the snails' food because I don't want the snails getting too lazy, but they do really seem to love mush foods! If I run out of veggies on week, I go outside and pick a few dock leaves, dandilions and nettles for them. If you have any rhubarb growing they also love rhubarb leaves.

[pinkunicorn]

Tortoise or fish pellets are good, just need thorough moistening. I let them soak in a spoonful of water for 15 mins before offering. Fish and algae flakes are also good, especially sprinkled over other food. They need just a quick spray of water.

I also share my food with my molluscs, I always set aside some while preparing dinner, in addition to their basic cucumber. And I give them apple cores, peach/plum seeds etc as treats to carve the remaining fruit flesh off.

A long-lasting vegetable option is to plant an edible plant into the terrarium. I've used bokchoy (the smallest leaves and the"root part" after the big leaves have been used), which gets frequently nibbled on, but I think many types of lettuce will work well. You can even grow those from seeds. Can put the seeds straight into the terrarium, or if the seedlings get eaten too quickly, grow them elsewhere and plant when they are big enough. Snails really like the seedlings...

Oh, and I don't have GALSs either! Just aspersas and slugs. I am soon buying some though. But aspersas are really nice snaily pets, a lot of folks here seem to have them.

[feelahthetigress]

Thanks everybody for the suggestions! I was originally a bit nervous of the tortoise food because I went to the petstore the other day and read the ingredients and there were like a million chemicals listed and I wasn't sure if they were harmful or not, but if other people have tried it to no ill effect it can't be too bad. I was wondering about those algae flakes too (glad to know someone has tried them). I think I'll make some "snail mix" once I get the money as well.

As for the snail cookies, that sound like an interesting idea. I'm sure i can free up some space in my freezer. I just have a few more questions on them. Do they spoil uber fast once thawed and put in the tank (I tried some frozen veggies before and man did they spoil quickly)? Also, do they stink terribly (perhaps due to fish flakes)?

One more question. I often order dried herbs for my own herbal teas (stuff like dried rose petals, dried mint, dried lavender and blackberry leaves, etc.). It got me to thinking...would a snail eat dried leaves? I mean, I'd pick something that snails would normally consume fresh anyways. I just can't help but wonder if they'd eat dried leaves if they were moistened. Hmm....but then maybe the dried leaves would mold super fast or something....

Oh well, everyone's given me excellent suggestions and I think I'll surely have enough to work with as a good supplement to their fresh foods (which they will still get plenty of, of course).

P.S. - I'd love to plant edible plants in my vivarium, but I can't due to my absolutely crummy north facing window that's made even less bright by an overhang built into the building. The only thing that grows in my terrariums is ivy (currently in use), ferns (which I can't use because my foolish snails killed it by climbing it and breaking off all its leaves), and moss. Maybe I'll try a pothos now that I've upgraded to a bigger tank.

[pinkunicorn]

I've fed dried and reconstituted forest mushrooms to my slugs, and they seemed to like it just fine. I guess dried leaf would be ok when moistened. Although there may be additives in teas, and often is lots of pesticide residues which are designed to be harmful for snails... I'd recommend trying organic type if you want to try it.

For the plants you can use something that would not last very long regardless of light, such as the bottom of a bunch of bokchoy, Chinese cabbage or a potted lettuce or anything that has a root-like thing. It'll last a week or two, but will provide fresh food if you need to be away for a few days for example.

As for the long ingredient lists... yeah some have too much additives. I find the Tetra brand quite good and my molluscs like it. The only worrisome additive is food colouring in some if them, although it's possible it's a vegetable dye. I've not checked. You should choose one that has as little rice/wheat flour used, and is mostly based on fish or shrimp etc protein source, or algae in the case of algae flakes. I've several in use: Tetra Gold Japan ministicks (pellets), which are very high in protein and have carotene and vitamin D, among others, added; also I use Tetra exotic flakes and same brand bottom feeder algae & shrimp tablets (which need long soaking, after which I spread the mush on a slice of food). All good quality fish food should have vitamins and minerals added, and the nutrient contents listed on the jar.

Another idea for storing is simple freezing, btw. I've experimented with this some. Not all foods freeze well, but for example thawed soggy oyster mushroom was well eaten by Garfield, whose favourite it is when fresh. I've also used some store-bought frozen veggies (after checking that nothing has been added to them) and they get eaten. There is a small loss of nutrients, but it's nothing drastic.

Edited to fix a weird autocorrect word change that changed the meaning of the sentence...

[barnaclesnail]

Hi Nice to see someone else from the US around here!

What I sometimes do is buy a veggie or fruit mix, which ends up being much cheaper than buying say, a whole carton of strawberries or head of lettuce, and gives them a better variety. I buy small enough so that we have enough for a few days and it doesn't go bad before they finish the entire carton. I'd also second the fish flakes... there's a brand here called Aqueon that has good ingredients, absolutely no chemicals or artificial colors. I give just a tablespoon or two a few times weekly to stretch out their lettuce, although my picky helix lucorum hate it, but the GALS are crazy about it! I don't have helix aspersa, but I can't imagine them being as annoyingly finicky as the lucorums...

[feelahthetigress]

Thanks Pinkunicorn. All those ideas sound useful, and do not worry about the dried teas - I buy all my stuff from mountainroseherbs.com, and almost everything they sell is certified organic.

- Barnaclesnail, thanks for the recommendation. I imagine that helix aspersa aren't that picky eaters or they wouldn't be considered "a pestiferous species" of gardens everywhere. Hmm...on a side note, you live in the U.S. too and you managed to get GALS? I know they're illegal here (it made me weep in despair). I suppose you're keeping them on the "down-low". It's okay, I won't tell on you!

[barnaclesnail]

Barnaclesnail, thanks for the recommendation. I imagine that helix aspersa aren't that picky eaters or they wouldn't be considered "a pestiferous species" of gardens everywhere. Hmm...on a side note, you live in the U.S. too and you managed to get GALS? I know they're illegal here (it made me weep in despair). I suppose you're keeping them on the "down-low". It's okay, I won't tell on you!

I've never seen anything picky as the lucorms... I don't know how they survive in the wild lol

Yes, I managed to get GALS here... shhh They're an invasive speciesin the US, or at least in climates like we have in the south, but I'm not planning on releasing mine EVER, so problem solved. Not sure they would even survive our severe winters in the north east tho. What bothers me is that you're more likely to get a zoonotic disease from a dog or cat, and I hear FL has quite the invasive python problem... yet snakes are still legal - despite they are a tangible threat to humans/small animals as they can grow to incredible sizes in that climate.

*gets off soapbox*

[feelahthetigress]

Jul 18, 2012 23:24:32 GMT barnaclesnail said:

Barnaclesnail, thanks for the recommendation. I imagine that helix aspersa aren't that picky eaters or they wouldn't be considered "a pestiferous species" of gardens everywhere. Hmm...on a side note, you live in the U.S. too and you managed to get GALS? I know they're illegal here (it made me weep in despair). I suppose you're keeping them on the "down-low". It's okay, I won't tell on you!

I've never seen anything picky as the lucorms... I don't know how they survive in the wild lol

Yes, I managed to get GALS here... shhh They're an invasive speciesin the US, or at least in climates like we have in the south, but I'm not planning on releasing mine EVER, so problem solved. Not sure they would even survive our severe winters in the north east tho. What bothers me is that you're more likely to get a zoonotic disease from a dog or cat, and I hear FL has quite the invasive python problem... yet snakes are still legal - despite they are a tangible threat to humans/small animals as they can grow to incredible sizes in that climate.

*gets off soapbox*

Yup, I've heard they are eating down Florida even as we speak, but it's hard to be mad at them because they are sooo cute! Yeah, I had a heck of a time just getting my Helix Aspersa because of the anti-shipping laws in the U.S. I ended up having to pay about $65 to have them shipped just to get them. It was worth it though! Hmm... now I just have to see if they'll eat some snail cookies or snail mix or algae wafers or any number of the lovely suggestions in this thread...

I like the idea of frozen veggies and I've done it before, it's just that they seem to spoil twenty million times faster than their fresh counterparts once placed in the tank. Oh well, I have a frozen cucumber and a frozen sweet potato and some calcium, as well as some oats, so I'm going to try making a snail cookie and seeing if my beasties will eat it. ;D

[feelahthetigress]

Jul 18, 2012 0:12:40 GMT shaydeesnail said:

Fish food and tortoise pellets can be stored for ages, I wouldn't give them too much fish food as it makes them quite fat! Not sure what the tortoise food is made of though, so I've no idea how often you can feed it. I made some "snail cookies" from fish food mashed into blended vegetables with some calcium carbonate, I store them in the freezer. I bet they could be dried in a dehydrator or a low temp oven for long storage, too. That way could just rehydrate them at feeding time.

I decided to try out some of those snail cookies since I had some veggies in the freezer ( I checked that none of them had any additives/salt). So, I put some sweet potato, a cucumber, some yellow squash, some green beans, some calcium, and since I didn't have any fish food, I threw in some oats. I blended them all up (has anyone ever noticed that frozen veggies seem to have more water when they thaw out than when they were fresh?) and gave some of it to my snails. They do seem to like it, and have eaten a good portion for their size. I decided to freeze the rest of it in ice cube trays. I'm hoping this will make it easier to just pop out a single serving at a time instead of having to chip away at a giant brick of it. I'm awfully curious though, why do you call them "snail cookies" instead of "snail mush" or "hideous reconstituted vegetable crud" or something like that? Do you specifically freeze yours in the shape of cookies or something?

[shaydeesnail]

Rofl! Hideous reconstituted vegetable crud did come to mind! I bashed the fish food into a greasy looking powder and used limestone flour, so it came out like a pastey dough, then I couldn't resist making them into little circles like cookies I wasn't enjoying the rainbow of mashed up food so I mixed them for ages until they went that sort of murkey grey that can only be created by bashing together all the brightest colours I wanted them to take up as little space as possible so I froze them on a tray then once frozen, put them in a little bag
I think how long they last would depend on what vegetables/fruit is in them a bit, and the consistency. I tend to leave them in the tank overnight, and if theres any left it tends to get nibbled early the next night, anything left after that I take out. I may take it out on the first morning if it's been a really hot night because fish food can get a bit stinky, I don't think it's going mouldy or anything, just releasing it's full stench D: With all my veg though, I don't mind if it gets slightly mushy, as some of my snails like it more (It's a good use for a cucumber that's getting slightly too soft for my liking!) As long as no mould/bad smell develops.

[feelahthetigress]

Jul 19, 2012 10:32:13 GMT shaydeesnail said:

Rofl! Hideous reconstituted vegetable crud did come to mind! I bashed the fish food into a greasy looking powder and used limestone flour, so it came out like a pastey dough, then I couldn't resist making them into little circles like cookies I wasn't enjoying the rainbow of mashed up food so I mixed them for ages until they went that sort of murkey grey that can only be created by bashing together all the brightest colours I wanted them to take up as little space as possible so I froze them on a tray then once frozen, put them in a little bag
I think how long they last would depend on what vegetables/fruit is in them a bit, and the consistency. I tend to leave them in the tank overnight, and if theres any left it tends to get nibbled early the next night, anything left after that I take out. I may take it out on the first morning if it's been a really hot night because fish food can get a bit stinky, I don't think it's going mouldy or anything, just releasing it's full stench D: With all my veg though, I don't mind if it gets slightly mushy, as some of my snails like it more (It's a good use for a cucumber that's getting slightly too soft for my liking!) As long as no mould/bad smell develops.

Ew, that sounds, um, appetizing (I'm imagining nasty gray lumps of crud). You really managed to puree yours, huh? I put my stuff in a food processor until it was ground to more the consistency of tiny little chunks, I suppose it looks more like vomit (yeah, you're welcome for that thought), or something you'd get from a high school cafeteria as a side dish (yeah, my high school food left something to be desired). The snails seem to like it despite my reservations (in fact, I woke up this morning and one of them was still there, and he had managed to eat all the way to the bottom of the bowl, which is impressive for a beast of his size). I wonder if a snail can make themselves sick from greedy overconsumption?

I really like the idea of just popping a bit of the snail mash in the bowl for them every other day since it's basically just veggies and calcium, and it seems like a good way to get them to eat a variety of veggies all at once (and people have told me that frozen veggies don't lose much of their nutrients at all). Is there any danger to feeding them this stuff regularly/frequently? I know it's probably better to make sure they have fresh stuff too to munch on rather than rely on frozen stuff exclusively, right? Although it'd be super convenient if I could feed them this stuff frequently.

Also, I'm thinking of making a similar mash out of fruits for a bit of variety. What fruits do you guys recommend for their tendency to not mold quickly in tanks and also how well liked they are by snails?

[shaydeesnail]

Ahah the first time I made them I got to the vomit-like stage, the only problem is that a lot of water seems to seep out like that, a little pit does when it's pastey but not quite as much, and it can be mixed back in if it's on a little plate of some sort.

I don't think that there's any danger really, unless there is a lot of cereals in it maybe. Some cheaper fish foods contain rice and wheat flour so I pay a little more for something better, and don't give them any grains. I think they are all right with some soaked oats occasionally though.

I'm not really sure what fruits are best... hmmm hopefully someone else will be able to suggest some, if not I'm going to try and experiment with some and I'll let you know. I know strawberries go mushy a bit quickly, and that apples when pureed tend to separate into juice and pulp unless cooked, maybe a bit of apple juice could be used to add moisture to the mix, I normally use a bit of water.

My snails like apples mostly when it comes to fruit, they seem to be picky with it! Whenever I'm eating fruit I share a little to see if they like it, they like strawberries a bit but they won't eat a lot of it.

[feelahthetigress]

Hmm, well, I'm not too worried about water seepage because I use serving dishes. I think I'll skip the fish food, but should I keep out the oats? I didn't add too many. I would say it was only 1/6 of the recipe.

Thanks for trying out the fruits, let me know how that goes! I only know that bananas are pretty much the worst thing ever... Those molded almost immediately.

Oooh, update: I found a cool recipe for "snail jello" for aquatic snails. It's sounds like a fun snail treat, and doesn't seem like it'd be poisonous/dangerous (since aquatic snails can eat it safely), so I'm thinking about making it for my snails later. Here is the recipe:

1 4-6 oz. jar vegetable baby food (find one with no sodium/preservatives, can substitute homemade vegetable puree)
2 tsp. fish flakes
1 tsp. ground calcium
1 packet (1 tbs.) unflavored gelatin powder

1. Pop baby food in the microwave for about 1 min. or until hot enough to boil, then stir in other ingredients.
2. Allow to set in fridge for 1 - 2 hours or until firm.
3. Store in fridge, or can be frozen and thawed later for use.

Sounds pretty cool, huh?

Update: Okay, I tried the snail jello and it seems to be a hit! I didn't actually see them eat it, but it's now missing chunks out of the side, so they probably did eat it in the night. Hooray! Success! I also found out that you can freeze the jello and then thaw it for later use (convenient). The jello idea seems like a useful way to get them to eat foods that they are picky about (such as grinding up pumpkin seeds and hiding it in the jello). It's also a good way to get them to eat stuff that molds really fast otherwise. For example, the jello I made uses the Banana Plum Grape flavor baby food, and bananas usually mold very quickly. Anyway, it seems like a good idea and they don't seem ill from it (although it's only been overnight since I tried it) and they seem to like it.

Has anyone else tried the snail jello recipe on their snails?

[pinkunicorn]

Ooh the jello also sounds like a source of protein due to the gelatin (although it misses some amino acids that need to be added from other foods for complete nourishment). I'm not really familiar with gelatin use as I prefer to use arrowroot and agar agar for that purpose, but since they offer no nutrients to the snails it doesn't seem a good idea. I will try the gelatin food though.

[feelahthetigress]

Jul 23, 2012 23:13:44 GMT pinkunicorn said:

Ooh the jello also sounds like a source of protein due to the gelatin (although it misses some amino acids that need to be added from other foods for complete nourishment). I'm not really familiar with gelatin use as I prefer to use arrowroot and agar agar for that purpose, but since they offer no nutrients to the snails it doesn't seem a good idea. I will try the gelatin food though.

arrowroot? agar? I'm not too familiar with those... Anyway, I didn't really think the gelatin would give them much nutrition (and hopefully isn't dangerous - although I can't imagine that it could be if aquatic snails eat it all the time). I was thinking of it as more of a treat that they would like because it's very soft and squishy. Plus you can hide things in it that you want them to eat (such as pumpkin or hemp seed) for picky snails since the pureed vegetables/fruits will hide it's smell.

[pinkunicorn]

Arrowroot powder is a starchy flour that can be used for puddings, and agar is a seaweed product, I think it is also a starch in it that does the jellying trick. They might bloat in the snail's guts too much, given they're used for that very purpose in many dieting foods, so could be dangerous to snails unlike gelatin that does not expand.

I'm just forever thinking of the nutrient content, given how slugs at least are capable of noticing if an amino acid is missing from food!

[feelahthetigress]

Well, Pinkunicorn, I suppose the nutrient content of the jello snack depends mostly on what you put in it! So, I guess if you wanted to load it with nutrients you could pick the most nutritious vegetables to puree and put in it, along with some ground seeds or whatever else you want.

I actually messed up my first batch and put too much gelatin powder, so it came out considerably firmer than it was supposed to, but they seem to be happily eating it anyway...

[feelahthetigress]

Well, update guys. I've discovered that my little beasties don't really prefer the jello. In fact, they much prefer plain baby food, the snail mash (ground veggies) and of course, their usual diet of fresh stuff. While they do eat the jello, they don't seem as keen on it as I thought they would. Oh well, you live and learn! I personally think I'll stick to the frozen snail mash and the snail mix for my long-term storage needs, supplemented with fresh veggies.

[prowljazz]

What About Soaked Cat Biscetts?
They Last a LONG Time if Kept Dry and Cool Once in a While....