Poor snail completely without its shell :(

[applejam]

First off, I'm glad I found these forums! The website provided me with so much info, thanks to those who've put it all together

Two days ago I found a snail in our kitchen, and its shell was broken, quite badly like two large chunks and then smaller splinters. I got so angry and sad, knowing that it was in the kitchen, middle of the floor, someone must've deliberately stepped on it but not bothered to finish their job. My housemates hate the snails, one of them steps on the ones at our yard on purpose.

I picked it up and set up a box for it. Cleaned it with some water, there were smaller splinters that were completely loose and they came off. Soon the other large piece fell off aswell, and the situation began looking bad. Then last night the remaining bits fell off

The poor thing is completely naked now, and I guess I should try to find the heart to end its struggle, but it is so difficult(and I'm not sure what would be the best way?). It's still moving around a lot, yesterday it ate some cucumber, but not sure if it has today. I got a cuttlefish bone for it and it's been sitting on that now and been munching it. Every now and then I spray it with water.

One question about the ventilation, it's a 2 litre box and I've made 6 holes on it, not very large at all. You can see them in some of the photos below. Should there be more, or will the moisture escape.

A lot of the time I find it hanging from the box lid, and I began thinking maybe it prefers that position because then its insides aren't squished at all by the gravity?

It is strange that it's soft body seems quite intact, it's like the shell just came off and the body didn't get badly damaged in the process.

I am curious though, has anyone else taken care of a snail in this shape? How did it go?

Here's some photos I took... the poor thing won't live long I fear, but I've rarely seen photos of intact shell-less snail, so maybe these photos will be of interest to you and its death won't be for absolute nothing!


The state I found it in...




Next morning, half the shell has come off. It's still eating.
(btw that white bit in the middle isn't a see-through, it's just the light reflection)




Oww




And then today, all of the shell gone




On this side, there's two moving spots, both seem like the pulse? Especially the bit that is bulging out a bit.




And one from this side...




Behind




Top







And here's a little surprise, which appeared in the box right after I put the bigger snail and some leaves into it




How I wish there was a way to give it a brand new shell

[shaydeesnail]

Awh that poor thing

It's up to you whether you think you can end his life or not, there are quite a few people on here that don't do that, and just make their snails as comfortable as possible while nature takes it's course, don't feel forced into it just do what you think is the right thing to do

I'm very surprised that he's still eating! how strange. It's nice that he has a little friend in there with him, my biggest issue when one of my snails was ill was whether or not to separate him, the others wouldn't stop climbing on his back and hanging off of him when he climbed the tank walls (He had mantle collapse.) It made me so sad to take him away from his brothers/sisters!

as for the air holes, some of my tubs don't have any (My Discus snails really like the dampness) and the snails have done fine left for days without any problems, so as long as you open it up often he may actually do better with less ventilation to keep the humidity in.

The outcome of this doesn't look good But good luck to you and your snailie with making the best of his situation. Let us know how things go

[graemepryce]

Aww. The fact that he is eating and moving around is quite promising but to be honest its VERY unlikely that he will come through losing all of his shell. The shell isn't just a curly box to live in, it is a part of the snails body like our skin is part of ours.

It is not well researched or understood whether snails can feel pain or not but they certainly feel distress if their conditions aren't right. I expect this little guy will pass away during the night in the next day or so but there is a tiny chance that if the inner layer of the shell was left complete that he could begin to grow a new one. It is very unlikely that he would be able to manage his levels of moisture and heat long enough to completely cover his body though, and any new shell would be likely to grow incorrectly and possibly not house his organs correctly anyway.

My advice would be to carry on as you have done and just feel better that you didn't leave him to die amongst the dust and cold of the kitchen floor. If you really wanted to speed things up then putting him in the freezer as exposed as possible will finish him off quite quickly without a shell - how unpleasant that is for him can only be guessed at.

The best thing to do if you step on a snail accidentally outside is really to just have a quick look - if the shell is damaged to the point where it looks impossible for the snail to pull back into or is cracked in more places than just at the very front then it is kinder to just step on it again and make absolutely sure that it is crushed completely enough to have died instantly. Being squeamish about it doesn't really help the creature.

Your housemate is very cruel for stepping on them deliberately but unfortunately many people see snails as no more important than insects or spiders. They seldom realise that a snail has a much more evolved nervous system and some scientists believe they may be as intelligent as mice ( mostly larger species than this though ). Thankfully they are prolific breeders and you should rest assured that for every one your housemate kills there are probably another five hundred in a 10 meter radius of him and a few of them will be laying a couple of hundred eggs!

You should tell him that even if he stepped on every snail he ever saw it would make no difference - they were here tens of millions of years before us and will probably be here long after we have gone. . . . . .

[vallery]

Hi applejam,

First of all I am so sorry for your little friend. How awful for the two of you.

If you go to the website connected to this forum and go to: Problems, you may be able to find something there about stepped on snails and snails with broken shells.

Your little friends damage looks pretty extensive. I too am surprised he is eating and moving about.

I would agree with shaydeesnail about keeping him on his own so any others don't crawl on him and to keep him well misted so he doesn't dry out.

I do hope you find a solution.
Best of luck.
vallery

[leila]

I HAVE AN IDEA... thats a garden snail right, pretty common in your area? im sure with some looking ud be able to find an empty shell about his size out in the wild, maybe you could very carefully cut it in half length wise and mend it back together around his body to keep everything in until he start to regrow his own shell (if hes strong enough) might be a long shot but it could be worth a try

[leila]

ok i spent some time in paint to try and make my idea make more sense... the only shell i could find a cross section of was nautilus but most snails wouldnt have the chambers

hope you can see it

Attachments:

[applejam]

Hey everyone, thanks so much for the comments and support&thoughts

It's still moving around, and I just now gave it some banana and looked like it ate a fair bit of it. It is truly strange but makes me happy. Seems it liked the banana more than the cucumber. It also spent a good while on the cuttlefish bone before climbing back up to hang from the lid.

However, when it's not hanging upside down the movement is a bit of a struggle. I'm almost convinced it can indeed feel pain, like every time the part that used to be inside the shell gets stuck somewhere and it stretches itself and tries to move and then don't succeed it flinches back so fast, curls up and stays there for a moment. It seems a bit exhausted, I actually wish it'd rest instead of trying to move. Why the hurry, little one?

Leila wow thanks for taking the time to illustrate your idea. I'm just worried about the spirals of the shell, they would need to fit... Plus not sure how the shell would stay around it since it's not attached to the actual body. I do so wish there were a way to do something like this and make it work! It all seems so much more extensive than just patching up a small hole.

graemepryce, the flatmate(or they? I know one person does this for sure but not sure maybe the others aswell) is cruel indeed. It's not like he's a nasty person, but one of them people who have no understanding that even the smallest of creatures have a valuable life, and if you need them for food or they're somehow a threat to you, you can at least make it quick then. But this sort of pointless (attempted) killing is so uncalled for I'm gonna bring it up once other small issues in our house have calmed down, I think no one would take some extra critisising very well right now...
Reminds me when we had mice and the snap traps weren't working, so they got a glue trap and that was absolutely awful, I was in tears. The distress the poor creatures were in...

Thanks once more everyone, will keep you updated!

ps. I hope I don't seen inconsiderate calling the little one 'it'? considering how they can be both males and females, and with me coming from a language background that has no gender pronouns, 'it' just fits my use of words the best somehow

[applejam]

Just came to mind: Since it seems to enjoy hanging off the lid.. and while I fear it'll stretch it too much I still believe it's the most comfortable position for it right now, I was thinking maybe I could like chip off some cuttlefish bone, make it powder, then mix it with mashed banana and spread that around the lid. So it could be upside down even when feeding.

I added some paper on the outside of the lid so it can have something to hide under and it seems to like to retreat there every now and then.

[graemepryce]

I'm amazed that it is still going! Maybe you could grate a bit of cuttlefish with a cheese grater over the soil so he can absorb it as he is moving about. I usually do that when any of my GALS have a little break in the front of their shells.

[Paul]

I've never heard of a snail regrowing its shell completely. From my experience a break can be mended because a paper film forms and then hardens off but it needs something to bridge across. I've repaired shells a few times where the break is bad but leaves a strong structure to be mended.

The problem with this kind of break is twofold. The first problem is that without a shell holding the shape the mantel collapses and seems to make breathing more difficult although this doesn't seem to be the case here, unless that explains the problems you mentioned when not hanging from the roof; I've seen snails with mantel collapse prefer to hang - I think it helps open the pneumostome (breathing hole).

The main problem I think is infection. You have to keep the environment humid to prevent drying out and that type of environment is a breeding ground for fungus and bacteria and its body is exposed.

The times I've heard of something similar is where the whole shell detaches without a break occurring for reasons unknown, and it never grew back or even started to repair.

I truly hope it survives somehow... I've always found that when snails are ill, they stop eating - often altogether. The fact it is eating shows it mustn't be too distressed. It may not live much longer, but hey - it's the quality of life that matters and you are making its last days comfortable and free from predators.

You can do no more than that...

[pinkunicorn]

gOh wow. Poor little fella. I recommend contacting your country's malacological organisation as well, they might be able to help and this is also quite a rare problem that could benefit mollusc research. Send them photos and the details. I'm just battling with a completely different but just as unique problem and very hopeful about getting it solved with our malacological society's aid. In the meantime keep him moist with boiled and cooled water, eating whatever he finds delicious (try all veggies, cuttlefish bone and maybe fish flakes on top of moist food; in place of cuttlebone you can use a human calcium supplement with or without vitamin D since this is an emergency situation) and his container as sterile as you can. Clean it daily, bake the substrate in the oven for 30mins and spray with boiled and cooled water. And what others said already.

Usually as long as the snail keeps eating and pooping it's a good sign. So keep an eye on him actually pooping to know he is still eating. If he stops eating... well that will be a bad sign.

I've got thumbs up for the fella, hoping that he makes it somehow. I'm very glad you rescued him, even if he doesn't make it he had warmth, moisture, food and comfort in his last days. I'm sure he's feeling happier now and would be very thankful to you, if snails had such concept!

If you don't know what organisation you could contact we can find it for you. What's your country in that case?

[PennyFarthing]

Poor little thing! I've used sticky tape and leaves to patch large holes on wild snails, but I was never able to save one in that condition!

I second what was said about carrying on as you are and hoping for the best. At least the little snail seems to be comfortable, all things considered, if it's still eating. You're a really good, caring person.

[applejam]

Thank you again for the comments <3

I moved it into a smaller container, to stop it from trying to climb too high. It was exhausting itself too bad and kept on sliding down the wall. Now it can still raise up a bit if it needs to get to more comfortable position.

It's been more quiet today during the day(but aren't they usually?), but it's still eating, actually tucking into a leaf right now behind my back! I mashed the banana+mixed some cuttlefish with it as I wrote earlier, seemed it was nibbling that in the morning. And it has pooped twice today. This all genuinely amazes me!

There's no substrate in the box, I'm trying to keep it as clean as I can and not to have anything in there that could harm the fragile body.

Hmm Pinkunicorn you got me curious about this society... I'm located in London, just moved here from Finland a couple of years ago In what ways you believe they'd be interested in this specific case?

Here's one pic from today I really like
(I know it looks sort of squished in the middle, but that's how it is when it breathes out and then again the skin rises when it breathes in)

[shaydeesnail]

It's great to see that he's bravely fighting on! I've heard of snails that stop eating and lose the will to live after what would be minimal damage compared to this guy What a little trooper. My heart really goes out to him, and you, for all you're doing for him.

[leila]

wow im glad (and amazed) to see that hes still doing ok, what i would do when my slugs were sick and i didnt want them in substrate it to put a moist kitchen sponge (make sure it is very very clean) in the bottom of the tank so it could have something to get some traction on vs sliding around on the damp plastic

[gunshotglitter]

Aug 28, 2012 20:01:38 GMT leila said:

wow im glad (and amazed) to see that hes still doing ok, what i would do when my slugs were sick and i didnt want them in substrate it to put a moist kitchen sponge (make sure it is very very clean) in the bottom of the tank so it could have something to get some traction on vs sliding around on the damp plastic

This gave me an idea, you could also put moisted 100% cotton or cotton pads, just put water on it and squeeze it well. This is what I used when I was transporting my baby Cepaea in a plane when going on holidays. It is 100% clean, doesn't harm them at all and keeps moisture for a long time.

[pinkunicorn]

He's such a trooper, brave little guy! If he keeps this up.. maybe there is hope for him to live longer!

My problem is about a slug without a penis wanting to mate, the topic is in this subforum if you'd like to read the details.

I contacted the Dutch society just to ask a question, basically asking if there is someone who could help me and would be willing to look into the problem. And they are sending my question along to more people now, I'm waiting now what will follow. It's worth a shot for you, too, I think. There's very little that a vet can do for the snail and there is a chance someone in the "snail network" of UK could want to take a look at if a shell-less snail can be fixed. Doesn't hurt to just present what you have and ask if they know of anyone who could give advice, and then see what happens. Worst case is hearing that nothing can be done, in better case you may get advice to save the snail's life and best case, who knows, there might be a researcher who finds your shell-less fella interesting and will look deeper into it.

[leila]

it might not even have to be a local malocology society, aside from language barriers i think anyone with knowledge/experience on the topic could help

[applejam]

URGENT!

The snail is so poorly. The last few hours it's just been still and barely breathing. However something IS happening and I'm wondering is it trying to lay eggs? The poor thing is completely exhausted, just barely moving when I spray some water on it to try to make it wake up a bit.
Here's a photo, please let me know what to do if it indeed is eggs. What if they're only midway out when it gives up? They're not out any further than this you see here

[PennyFarthing]

That doesn't look like eggs to me, but I hope it is.

Snails are still when they're laying eggs, so the seeming exhausted really isn't unusual. I suppose all you can do is keep misting and hope for the best.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[leila]

well can you tell which hole it is coming out of? if its the genital pore i have no idea what it could be, but i did once have a slug who was doing very poorly for a few days and eventually got a swollen mouth and some sort of whitish, bean shaped object came out of her breathing hole and she died... no saying this is whats going on (the pictures not great) but mollusk's bodies seem to sometimes go haywire when under severe stress...

i think it is very likely that he is overexerting himself, i wish there was some way to medicate him to get him to stop moving so his body can focus on healing, maybe something naturally relaxing like lavender

[shaydeesnail]

It actually looks like the penis, if it's coming from the side of the head. If it's coming from the mouth then I suspect gut extrusion :/

[applejam]

It's like, if facing the direction the snail's "going" on the right handside, behind the right eyestalk sort of.

This is actually the first land snail I've ever inspected this closely, I only had water snails as a pet when I was a kid, so it's all a bit new+confusing!

[leila]

maybe the pressure on the body is forcing stuff out...

if its right behind the eyestalk, its the genital pore for sure. id take that as a good sign because all the stuff that might come out of there isnt necessarily as important as other things

just found these pictures online of a helix aspersa's organ placement and stuff underneath the shell

lanwebs.lander.edu/faculty/rsfox/invertebrates/images/pulmon13La_x550_x_411x.gif

lanwebs.lander.edu/faculty/rsfox/invertebrates/images/pulmon12La_x550_x_329x.jpg

[PennyFarthing]

If it's on the side of the head, I'd say that it's either the make sex organ our that it IS trying to lay eggs. Either way, unless it exhausts itself, what it is doing is nothing bad.