much mucus, what does it mean?

[Selena]

It's - maybe too worried me -again with a question ;-)

I have two big fulica's. Maybe the oldest ones. Theire shells stop groing i think. I can't see a grow-line (like i can see at the others) and theire shells are about 13 cm.They came from the same store as the one who is pased away a few days ago.

I check them everyday to make sure they are still in healty condition.

I'm a little bit concern right now. Because those two snail produce a lot more mucus then the smaller ones of theire kind. The excess mucus sometimes forms lumps on their bodies and in the terrarium.

their body also appears to be aqueous, they shine more than others do, and the grooves in theire skin are more difficult to see than i used to. Though it is a little bit swollen by moisture or mucus. But, this is only when you look closely. So it's not a very big difference.
Those snails are sometimes retracted deeper during their sleep.. However, when they are awake their bodies fills the hole opening of their shell. just as usual. Also they are quite big and wide and don't look skinnie ore dark at all. They are more slow than the smaller ones, but maybe it is because of theire age ore shell weight, right? 
So this hole case, is it common or they die soon as well;-)?

[Selena]

Yes, it's finally managed to put a picture! :)that makes it a lot clearer. These are the two fulica where the question is about.. I have made a close up from the mucus

[etana]

Ummh, I'm not an expert on this, but this is also me pushing your thread up, hoping someone more knowledgeable notices

One reason for extra mucus (the only one I know of, but I'm sure it's not the only one there is) is that the snails are stressed, maybe wanting something off their skins. But I hope someone else can help!


Did you say your smallest one had mites? Is she in the same tank with these guys?

[muddydragon]

it's typically formed from irritation or sometimes from getting wet after being too dry.

Just check the following:
Any mites or anything crawling over them?
Is the substrat free from any fertilisers or pesticides?
when handled do you wash hands thoroughly before hand?
Food thoroughly washed?

I do wonder if the water quality may have an effect too? what water do you use and /or how do you treat it? (is it bottled, fromt he tap, boiled first? etc etc). i imagine in areas where tap water has a lot of additives (e.g. chlorine, flourine) it may cause some irritation

[Selena]

Thank you, that's nice!
Yes they're all in the same container. The Mites came definitely sure from my bigger immaculatas. They all ready had mites when i bought them. But i knew it before. I Thought the problem will be solved easely by giving the snail a few showers. The one who sold this snails is one of the best in the Netherlands and all of his snails are quite healty. So i made the decision to buy them despite the mites.
when i came home, i gave them a shower and inspected their bodies and found no mite anymore.
from this moment I did every day and i'd never seen one singel mite again, until the day before yesterday: I saw 1 mite on a small fulica.
The big fulica's get a shower or/and bath every day and I am always check on mites and certainly no more seen. Since I saw the mite on the little fulica, i also bathed and inspecting the little snails. Except for one mite, i never saw more.
I don't think the big ones have mites as well (not yet) but it is possible. Maybe the eggs ore larves from those mites are to small to see for a human?
Remarkable: the immaculatas are quite dry (less slime) comparing to all of my fulica;s, even when they had many mites. My fulica's produce more slime.
it is possible that the amount of mucus varies by type of the snail? and it can also vary by age? That an older snail produces more mucus than a younger snail? Perhaps because he has a heavier shell and moves more difficult? Or because that muscle is a bit damaged by picking all throughout his life?
maybe my largest snails producing more mucus because they are sitting less tight with their bodies stuck in their shells? That muscle that connects the body with the shell looks a bit stretched out. Maybe this will cause some more slime?

[Selena]

Dec 14, 2014 9:46:39 GMT muddydragon said:

it's typically formed from irritation or sometimes from getting wet after being too dry.

Just check the following:
Any mites or anything crawling over them?
Is the substrat free from any fertilisers or pesticides?
when handled do you wash hands thoroughly before hand?
Food thoroughly washed?

I do wonder if the water quality may have an effect too? what water do you use and /or how do you treat it? (is it bottled, fromt he tap, boiled first? etc etc). i imagine in areas where tap water has a lot of additives (e.g. chlorine, flourine) it may cause some irritation

Thanks for your answer! I checked everything. It it possible that it has something to do with the humidity? the humidity is a little bit high: 90% and the windows are Always  fogged. sometimes while theire sleeping, they often sitting on the windows. Sometimes they slide off of the glass pane by the fluid and mucus. About the water: i use water from the tap, but if it is the water, the other snails have to be the same problems right? maybe problems with their conditions will also cause deep retracting?

[Selena]

after i had read muddydragons respons (about the possibility of an irritationfactor) i started thinking what else could cause irritation... and i quess: I finally saw the connection. I feel kind of stupid and guilty right now.

i use (ever since i bought the big fulica's) much ultra fine precipitated calcium powder for reptiles on theire foods and sparkle it everywere in theire area (on the substrate, the ceiling, it's even in their water at this moment!)

I even began to give more of this powder! Because a few duch sites about snails had given the advise to sparkle it on their food and substrate. So i did. After this, i had read some information wich i took too literal maybe. So i thought scrapping their own shells means definetely: a lack of calcium ( i did not know it is also normal behouvior) so i increased the amount of calcium carbonate after i red this.

I even saw the powder on my snails bodies, forming a sort of white, slimy dreads. I often saw them trying to remove something in the edge of theire shells. those white slime threads with calcium is hoped there on. But even at this point i did't saw any connection and I do not wonder if the powder would be good for them as well. But thanks to your knowledge i really think this have to be the problem, isn't it?

 Sometimes I'm really stupid that I did not see this kind of logical connections. Unfortenately, It happened quite often. :-(

so, now i am going to clean everything and never make this particular mistake aganin!

[muddydragon]

i thought this question was about excess mucus not deep retraction?

the humidity is fine.

The mites can cause both excess mucus and deep retraction.

Bathing them every day is not good for them (although i appreciate you are trying to remove mites). the best way to remove mites is by buying predatory mites that eat the other mites (they can also climb in the breathing hole after the other mites, once their food source of mites is gone the predatory mites die). the reason bathing does not work well is that eggs can lie in the substrate and both eggs and mites can hie in the snail's breathing hole so no amount of bathing will remove them, they can also swim.

don't put calcium powder on their food. if it's on their food they cannot regulate their calcium intake (they will naturally take as much as they need but if it is on their food they have no option but to eat it to get their food), if they take up too much calcium it can cause organ problems and internal stones.

Also check what is in the reptile powder besides calcium carbonate.

it worth noting that snails can produce thcker mucus when nothing is wrong. many things can be considered irritating even another snail walking over them

I doubt age or size has much affect on mucus thickness, i would not say any of my smaller snails (of the same species) produce thicker or thinner mucus than the adults. (different seices produce different thicknesses and amounts of mucus though)

[etana]

I'll just hop in to agree that different species can have very different mucus amounts, small wild snails seem to be super duper slimy compared to GALS. I don't have and old GALS yet, but I have some very old wild caught ones, and they seem approximately as slimy as the young ones.

Them sliding down glass walls when asleep happens here too. I don't think it's anything alarming, they just get grumpy when they wake up and realise they didn't stay at the top, lol. Glass isn't something they find in the nature anyway so they're not perfect with it.
Sometimes my wild caught snails end up sliding down the glass quite fast when fully awake, especially if I've just been spraying. They just lose their grip and sliiiiiiiide, with their eye stalks spinning wildly. Poor things, though it makes me laugh to see it, and they never seem to get hurt anyway.

[Selena]

apologize for all the mistakes. My internet acting weird (not me ;-P) sometimes. very frustrating. I wrote this message before, but it appeared on the wrong place and i definately want to let you both know that the problem seemed to be solved: after i had read muddydragons respons (about the possibility of an irritationfactor) i started thinking what else could cause irritation... and i quess: I finally saw the connection. I feel kind of stupid and guilty right now.

i use (ever since i bought the big fulica's) much ultra fine precipitated calcium powder for reptiles on theire foods and sparkle it everywere in theire area (on the substrate, the ceiling, it's even in their water at this moment!)

I even began to give more of this powder! Because a few duch sites about snails had given the advise to sparkle it on their food and substrate. So i did. After this, i had read some information wich i took too literal maybe. So i thought scrapping their own shells means definetely: a lack of calcium ( i did not know it is also normal behouvior) so i increased the amount of calcium carbonate after i red this.

I even saw the powder on my snails bodies, forming a sort of white, slimy dreads. I often saw them trying to remove something in the edge of theire shells. those white slime threads with calcium is hoped there on. But even at this point i did't saw any connection and I do not wonder if the powder would be good for them as well. But thanks to your knowledge i really think this have to be the problem, isn't it?

Sometimes I'm really stupid that I did not see this kind of logical connections. Unfortenately, It happened quite often. :-(

so, now i am going to clean everything and never make this particular mistake aganin!

[etana]

Good for you for realising this.

You still need to deal with the mites though, but I'm sure your snails will feel better when the excess calcium is gone.

One thing to consider is where snails live in the wild & what they'd do there, and how you can imitate it. Your climbing tree branches are great for example because snails love to climb, as you've surely noticed
And they don't get covered in calcium, they rather find used mollusc shells, bones etc to rasp on, and cuttlebones are one way to imitate that.
Just a couple examples, there's lots more I'm sure but it pays to study what they do outside

[Selena]

Hi, you absolutely right. I laughed when i red the sentense about thy will not be covered in calcium in nature. haha no, they don't.
It is a good thing to realise everytime i want to add something ore do something new with my snails.
In the beginning, i mean: before i started to read all the information in English at once,i did quite well comparing to everything i did after reading all the information. I do not blame the information, but the way I understand that information. a lot of new information is very difficult to handle for me and especially if it's not in my own language. at first I thought namely that scrape the shell was something normal, but when I read that the scraping of their shell (she meant of course excessive) indicates a lack of calcium then I doubt myself and do crazy things.
Yes, the mites are definitely also the cause of the excessive mucus. I saw more mites. Some of my other snails and in my helix aspersa container and those snails also started to produce the same kind of irritation slime. Today i cleaned up their container and it was hard to pick up my helix snails, because they produce more slippery mucus and i also saw a few mites on them.
I try to find an adress to order the hypoaspis miles. I only found one provider who is transmitting packets with living things in winter. But they are horrible expensive, comparing to webshops in the UK and Belgium. So if you know where else i could get those hypoaspis miles in winter, let me know. :-)

[Zorst]

Whilst your waiting on some hypoaspis mites you could start with a few green tea baths , I don't mean loads of baths but a few can go a big way to removing mites. Just get a green teabag n get it wet and squeeze it into the snails water a coupe of times. You don't want it to strong. I then bath the snails in it and then take them out, remove the water with any mites in and repeat. After this i put mine back into a clean tank. Its one of the few times i change the bedding completely and sterilize everything in the tank. I repeat the bath about 2 days later. During those 2 days I keep a close eye on the snails to see if the mites r still there, if they are i repeat the green tea bath sooner.

Don't get me wrong I'm no into over bathing my snails or changing there beds completely often, I just do if there is a problem with either mites or those horrible little worms that occasionally appear. And if I can get hold of the hypoaspis mites these are my first choice as to getting rid of a mite problem.

Zorst

[Selena]

Thank you for the advise about green tea.
It is a bit strange. The big fulica's (this thread is about) dont have those mites. I mean: i have inspected their bodies frequently and never saw any mite at all. But they do produce the thickest mucus. If they went to sleap they will retracting deep in its shell and if they woke up theire bodies filled the opening on a usual way and during the sleep they also produce a lot thick slime. It seemed to be they want to hide from something.
but they react so irritated that you would expect that at least they have lots of mites on their bodies. But they do not have. Otherwise I do not understand that those two big respond so violently, while i did not see a mite on that two. Can be eggs also that irritating? I cleaned up the powder so this couldnt be the reason as well. I really want to help this two snails, because they seems to get more and more irritation instead of less (as i expected)maybe theres another thing i overlook.
U use cocossubstrate and Bark. Is that oke?

[Zorst]

Yes coco fiber is the best bedding for snails.

Zorst

[Selena]

thanks, thats a relief.

the next option is: maby the humidity is to low (very local) because, i replaced the snail and he went back to sleap (because i woke him for at least four times today! so the poor snail must be very tired)and on that spot, he retracted as usual. Maybe i put to much heatingmats on the walls so it can get to dry fast at some spots.
But i really dont know anymore what's the best. I'm quite insecure about everything since one snail died and others snails get problems with mites, mucus, retracting etc. Now i am afraid i made mistakes.

[etana]

I don't think eggs would irritate them.

One question: when you handle them, do you wash your hands beforehand, and make sure there's no soap/lotion residue?

Your snails have had a lot of problems to begin with, remember that. Badly treated snails (like yours from the lizard shop with hot lamps and no calcium) will be weird. I have a Tiger snail who was only a bit better off in his pet store terrarium, he lived on courgette and cuttlebone and was picked up wrong all the time (judging from the damage all around his shell). He looks much better now than he did when I got him, but he refuses to sleep anywhere but in deep tunnels and he still is afraid to be handled.

[Selena]

Hi Etana,

Thanks, I wash my hands almost everytime but i will do it better and make sure i do it Always.
I complained today at the reptile store. And they dared to say that i need to give them enough cuttlebone! They did not answer my qeustions about the light (but i know for sure there was a light in their container, i saw it). They kept the snails for only 1 week, they said. They got them from an individual who was quitting his snail hobby. So if this is true, I can not figure out how they are treated before.
Next time i do not buy older snails any more,i want to make sure they are in good health.

About the two big snails: today their condition seems to get better. Less mucus, they are very active and they sleep in a normal position. Not retracting to deep. So maybe it was the calcium powder indeed, and they just needed time to get rit of it. Hopefully the problem will be solved and from now on they are getting better.

[etana]

That's good that you complained, but what reactions
Anyhow I would think that even 1 week can be traumatic if they caught illnesses and got burns during it. Though if I've seen it right from your pictures, your snails' shells seem pretty damaged, so it looks like they've been at least picked up wrong lots, or they've lived in a dangerous tank for longer than a week, perhaps with the previous owner.

But I'm very glad to hear your big snails are better now. I hope things will continue to improve. It makes sense to me that it would take them some time to get over a stressful situation.

[Zorst]

Babies kept in bad conditions can have a higher death rate than bigger snails, so I wouldn't not buy a big snail because of that often Ive seen them n bad situations n taken them anyway either as re-homes of buying them just to help the snail n give it a chance.

The main thing is that your guys seem to have eased up on the excessive slime so that a good indication what ever was irritating them has gone. Also if they are more active n eating n sleeping normally it sounds like you have things much more to there liking. You can get a gauge that measures humidity mine cost me about €12.00 and was well worth it along with the temp gauge. Makes life a lot easier.

Good for you by the way talking to those in the pet store.

Zorst

[Selena]

Hi Zorst,

I already have one an hygrometer, even two. But i meant very locally it is maybe too dry. Near the heatingmats par example. If a snail is sleeping on the wall with the heating facility, maybe it can get to dry. but i never heard something like that before, so i'm too worried perhaps.
any way: i'm strubeling with the humidity and maybe it is better if i start a new thread about that subject. I have more questions about it.
You gave the advise to bath the snails in green tea, right? So a bought pure green tea and made it not too strong, like you said. I gave some of them a bath in it, very carefully. and they realy seamed to like it. their skins felt different, softer and more hydrated, after the greentea party they looked happy and active.
so is that the usual result of greentea? And what is the secret? Why is greentea healty for them?
One of my white jades went yellow/green during the green tea bath buth the result was the same as with the others.

[Zorst]

The green tea helps to kill parasites apparently, it certainly seems to help remove them better than just plain water. Its also supposedly good for the snails skin much the same as it is for us. there's no secret some people use it n some people don't, if you look through the posts in the forum you find it mentioned quite a bit. All I know is that I tried it and it sure seemed to work n the snails enjoyed it.

Zorst

[muddydragon]

great to hear you've figured it out selena.

I'm afraid you will always find conflicting information out there some people get hold of the wrong idea and keep repeating it over and over and some information is just old (even some on the site linked to this forum is out of date).

Try not to worry too much it sounds like you are doing very well with them and learning a lot .

When you get the hyopsis i think it would be worth putting some in with the snails that dont have mites too just to be on the safe side (incase the mites move to them during treatment) it's not a problem without other mites or small bugs (such as springtails) to eat the hypoaspis mites die and do not bother the snails

[Selena]

I saw only 3 mites in total and bathed al the snails in green tea and since i did that, i did not see any mite again. But i know they will not just go away. But actually buy hypoaspis mites for 3 mites is very expensive. In my country you have to pay about 60 euros for 10000 mites excl transmissionfee. In UK its for the same amount only 12,94. But i also have those irritating tiny black flies! it is a small muscito in my container, but i dont know the name in english. they are not harmfull for snails, only plants and lay eggs in soil.
Hypoaspis miles eat them as well, so it will solve 2 problems if i buy them.

The mucus problem is not solved completely. Sometimes the thick mucus lumbs still appear on the big fulica;s.
So, there have to be something else, or it is too dry in the container and when i gave the snails a shower, it also can cause the mucus, right? (i think the hygrometer is not working very well, it is cheap garbis) i bought a new one, wich start to use tomorrow.
Hopefully everything gets better soon,

[Selena]

My big fulica's still produce lumbs of mucus during their sleep.
But.... i'm actually wondering if it is mucus?

because, when they wake up, the first thing they do is eat that lump of mucus that is hanging on their body. Maybe it isn't mucus at all??

it is not transparent, white-isch and it seems to contain proteins and / or calcium. could it be the beginning of an epifragma or something? Multiple fulica have this and are otherwise very healthy (active, eat well) but during their sleep,  if they will completely retract in their shells, and only if they sleep that deeply, the lumbs will appear.