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Post by littlegoldsnail on Nov 14, 2019 4:20:58 GMT
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Post by wolf on Nov 14, 2019 10:41:48 GMT
Hi littlegoldsnail,
thanks for phantastic pictures! Very nice......... .
Well, the term "apple snail" stands for the whole family Ampullariidae with different genera (f.e. Pila, Pomacea, Marisa and so on). So "mystery snails" are part of (= members) of the family "apple snails" (= Ampullariidae). Several investigations have shown that the species "Pomacea bridgesii" in fact are "Pomacea diffusa". The latter was thought to be a subspecies of Pomacea bridgesii, but now we know that it is a valid species of its own. Pomacea diffusa can be golden without any bands or with several, relatively fine, narrow bands.
BLUME, W. (1957): Eine bis heute unbekannte Unterart von Pomacea bridgesi RVE – Opuscula Zoologica 1957-1960, Nr. 1, München.
COWIE, R.H., HAYES, K.A. & THIENGO, S.C. (2006): What are apple snails? Confused taxonomy and some preliminary resolution. Global advances in ecology and management of golden apple snails (ed. by R.C. Joshi and L.S. Sebastian), pp. 3-24. Philippine Rice Research Institute, Nueva Ecija, Philippines. RAWLINGS, T.A., HAYES, K.A., COWIE, R.H. & COLLINS, T.M. (2007): The identity, distribution, and impacts of non-native apple snails in the continental United States – BMC Evolutionary Biology 2007, 7:97, doi:10.1186/1471-2148-7-97.
Have a nice time: wolf
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Post by littlegoldsnail on Nov 14, 2019 22:18:04 GMT
That you for your input! I did know some of that, but not all. Apple snail is a much broader term then mystery snail, so I wanted this thread to be mystery snail specific. I think part of where the confusion came from is people calling everything in the family Apple snails, so it became a very broad term, but the original Apple snail is a little bit different then the mystery snail (biologically as well as physical appearance), but now everybody just calls them all apples so it gets confusing. Also, the common Apple grows about the size of an Apple (thus the name), while the mystery snail (even the jumbos) can only reach a max of about 2 inches.
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Post by Liguus on Nov 15, 2019 0:41:04 GMT
To add to the confusion Chinese Mystery snails are also sometimes referred to as just "mystery snails". Ideally everyone would just stop using common names and refer to animals only by the binomial nomenclature and properly labeled if sold, but that is just one of my pipe dreams.
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Post by wolf on Nov 15, 2019 12:47:10 GMT
Hi all!
littlegoldsnail : yes, I think it's correct to name all the species in the family Ampullariidae "apple snails", because this is the english name for the whole family with all its species, but one can (and should) be more specific and call a special species "mystery snail" (in the same sense it ain't wrong to call an American Bulldog "a dog"). I don't think that there is an "original" apple snail, because all species in the family Ampullariidae can be called "apple snails" (even Marisa cornuarietis, which looks very different).
@liguus: thanks a lot: I think exactly the way you do. Absolutely correct: the common names both in England, USA and Germany (where I am living) have caused a lot of trouble and confusion. I personally only use the scientific terms for the families and the correct binominal nomenclature. That helps to prevent trouble.
True enough: the name "Chinese Mystery Snail" is extremely confusing, for this species (Cipangopaludina chinensis) belongs - as we all know - to a quite different family: not Ampullariidae, but Viviparidae.
Marisa cornuarietis (family Ampullariidae) is sometimes called "Columbian Ramshorn Snail" - that's complete nonsense, because "Ramshorns" in a strikt sense (!) means the family Planorbidae.
Thanks for your posts, have a nice time: wolf (interesting discussion, it makes fun..........  |
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Post by littlegoldsnail on Nov 15, 2019 16:28:58 GMT
To add to the confusion Chinese Mystery snails are also sometimes referred to as just "mystery snails". Ideally everyone would just stop using common names and refer to animals only by the binomial nomenclature and properly labeled if sold, but that is just one of my pipe dreams. yes, The Chinese mystery snail makes things all the more confusing. Chinese mystery snail is actually a nickname for the Japanese trapdoors snail which is nowhere near related to to the mystery snail or Apple snail. The Japanese trapdoors is actually livebearing so it has a completely different reproductive system, it actually doesn’t even have lunges so it can survive below freezing temperatures while the mystery and Apple are tropical and will die in anything less than 60°. |
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Post by Liguus on Nov 17, 2019 21:49:12 GMT
Chinese mystery snail is actually a nickname for the Japanese trapdoors snail which is nowhere near related to to the mystery snail or Apple snail. I am not familiar with chinese mystery snail being a nickname for Japanese trapdoor snails...Do you mean people confuse the two as well? They are very similar looking so I would not doubt it. They are two different species, C. chinensis and C. japonica. A while ago I used to work at a nature preserve and a guy brought in a shell for Identification. He would not accept my ID of Chinese mystery snail because he found the shell on the banks not in the river. It was no doubt a Chinese M snail but my explanation of possible predation by birds or raccoon wasn't acceptable to him so he let me know he would call some professionals. |
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Post by littlegoldsnail on Nov 18, 2019 5:19:16 GMT
From my research I thought they where the same. It’s possible they could be slightly different I suppose, but I thought they where the same thing. I will look deeper into it.
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Post by littlegoldsnail on Nov 18, 2019 5:34:15 GMT
so, upon further research, they are slightly different, but extremely similar and close relatives. The Japanese trapdoors are often marketed as Chinese mystery snail and they are often both sold together under the label of just “trapdoor snail”. They look almost identical and are both live bearers, neither of them have lungs so they can survive freezing temperatures in an outdoor pond or something.
This turned into an interesting thread! This has been a great little discussion.
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