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Post by Paul on Jul 15, 2005 15:15:30 GMT
I don't know really. I'll register the domain and get it pointing to petsnails initially. I'm not sure if we need to formalise the affair on paper, perhaps there is a way but for now, we can be web-based, at least until some good progress has been made.
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Post by Paul on Jul 15, 2005 14:15:03 GMT
Also, I'm still unsure whether I think we should include the word "pet". Part of me says yes to identify us from other mollusc/gastropod societies, part of me says there is no need because we can make the focus whatever we wish regardless of name.
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Post by Paul on Jul 15, 2005 14:11:49 GMT
I sympathise with that but we'll only get to name it once so I don't think it's a waste of time thrashing the ideas out. For my two-penneth, I think "International Gastropod Society" or "World Gastropod Society" is the best.
I don't think having snail in the title for newcomers is a good idea because it's not like people are gonna find us by the title. I think people will be searching for snail stuff and they'll find the content of the pages or be directed by a link. So I don't think Gastropod will be misleading at all in that sense.
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Post by Paul on Jul 14, 2005 13:56:21 GMT
I know what you are saying but there are plenty of other mollusc/gastropod societies that do real research. Obviously, we're not in the same league and we are focussed on snails that could be kept as pets. If we don't express that is some way I wonder if we'll lose the focus for a new society and end up making ourselves obsolete in the process.
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Post by Paul on Jul 13, 2005 4:47:52 GMT
Definition of a Mollusc: www.bartleby.com/65/mo/Mollusca.htmlDefinition of a Gastropod: www.bartleby.com/65/ga/gastropo.htmlAlso... Gastropoda. A class of molluscs. Scientific term for molluscs which have undergone torsion. The name refers to the fact that these creatures seem to creep upon their bellies. In fact in gastropods the stomach is situated well above the region of the foot.
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 20:39:19 GMT
A gastropod is a sub-class of mollusc so it narrows the species by quite a bit.
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 20:30:15 GMT
Arno, do you think it should be mollusc or gastropod?
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 20:22:49 GMT
How about Pet Gastropod Society then or "International Pet Mollusc Society"?
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 20:15:33 GMT
Well, the only thing I'd mention here is that it all depends on how broad the society is, I mean whatever we pick may exclude certain things. Perhaps, as we are a hobbyist group we should actually be called the "Pet Mollusc Society" or something, so that anyone who keeps any type as a pet is welcome. I think that is truer to what we are, at the end of the day it is because we keep them as pets we want to know more about them. We can leave the others up to the conchology and malacology organisations. What do you think?
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 19:33:01 GMT
Here is an idea.
Why not call it "pulmonata society". They are molluscs with lungs so they include land snails and slugs. I have actually registered pulmonata.co.uk, that points to my website. If we use petsnails.co.uk as the society website as discussed earlier in the threads etc. I can make it so people who go to pulmonata.co.uk (or if we register pulmonata.org or something) get taken straight to the society section.
For anyone wondering why, it means we will have proper society member functions and we'll be able to collaborate collectively, rather than cobbling a new site together.
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 14:28:10 GMT
Sounds good.
Make sure any design is done in 300dpi and not 72dpi.
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 13:37:03 GMT
And have you reinstalled since it asked you this time?
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2005 3:43:04 GMT
Try uninstalling the software, then deleting the scanner from "Device Manager". Then reboot, it will autodetect it and ask you to install it again. That may work better but without more information about what errors you get I can't help much more.
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2005 19:54:57 GMT
I would say, for each issue, someone designs a front and back cover.
If we did it the way we suggested, I could send all the articles since the last one to the editor. I can do this fairly easily. Then the editor can chop some order into it.
If we need any bits filling up with extra design, they can then be requested and voila. The editor will need to be very good at Desktop Publishing.
As for actual section design, I see no reason why desigs can't be shown here and voted on, or cycled to be fair.
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2005 19:51:38 GMT
Sounds like a plan, depends on the amounts involved really. I have some experience of commercial printing and anything under 500 would be more cost effective printed on home equipment.
Having said that, if we did compile it as a pdf etc, we can have a front and back cover designed by whoever wished to do one. The whole magazine can look however we wish it to. And at the very least, you could print your own copy out or take it on a disk to a local shop to get it printed.
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2005 19:38:28 GMT
That's a good idea. How it exists as a magazine is up for debate. If you could see my plans for the website you'd see that the site is intended to be encyclopedic. I have designed an equipment/retailers section where you will be able to review things and leave comments so that is similar.
i think the adverts should pay for anything we need. Perhaps, to buy things needed for a test or review. We may even get donations by various manufacturers in the form of a piece of equipment. Then we can make sure whoever wishes to do a review gets these kind of things.
You know, the magazine could be a summary of all the updated info since the last issue. I think that would be good because the website remains central and the master copy for the info. The magazine would then be a rolling thing, showing updates and including the new articles but compiled in a magazine style. It would be useful to people in that sense I think, because it can be hard to follow websites when your looking for new updates. That way it serves two purposes and the website itself doesn't make the magazine redundant. It will make the job of creating the magazine much easier and because the information has a place to sit, it can be added to all month (etc) long without a mad rush to make an editorial.
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2005 17:49:06 GMT
The trouble is that the internet is much better for things like classifieds and unless we find people willing to print and distribute I think initially the magazine would be restricted to existing online. And like you said, frequency would be a problem.
I'd just like to say at this point that if anyone does want to write articles on anything snail related I'll always find a place to put it on my website. The more contributions the better.
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2005 17:14:08 GMT
It's really not up to me Sophie, it's for everyone to agree. I see no problem with it though I think it may take a few people to be honest.
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Post by Paul on Jul 11, 2005 16:19:28 GMT
This society can be whatever we wish, it is totally dependent on who is prepared to do what. So a newsletter/magazine is a great idea. I'd suggest we need someone to head the magazine, and editor so-to-speak. Then people will know where to send their articles etc. I'd also suggest that for now, it takes the form of an on-line document, like a pdf. This could be printed and sent should anyone require it that way, but it makes our lives easier for editing and distribution. I'm happy to create a magazine area on the site where all the issues can be viewed and downloaded.
I think it would need some direction though. One way to go about this would be to have 3 parts, beginners, intermediate and advanced. So, in each issue there are articles for everyone. One of my main bugbears about magazines is that they often only cater for beginners, you find the same info appearing every 6 months. That's fine in my opinion, provided people who have seen all this have a chance to get into more advanced topics.
We need to start jotting down ideas of what kind of information would go in it. Will it be drawn from the website and forum or will it contain new things? And if so how and it what ways?
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Post by Paul on May 9, 2005 17:01:40 GMT
Cool, we'll have to have a chat by phone about it all. It's bloody hard trying to explain myself here. I keep getting worried I sound aggressive. I am not intending to be. So just for the record for everyone, I never mean to offend and please, please, please say whatever you wish, no holds barred. I have thick skin lol. What we are trying to achieve is the most important thing, individual egos are not The truth points to itself. And as Doug Stanhope says "you don't need to be told things are great, if they are you'll figure it out for yourself" lol. I'm just glad we have people who are keen about it all. For me, a little ray of sunshine has peeped through the clouds and life has started to form on planet earth again. paul
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Post by Paul on May 9, 2005 6:05:09 GMT
Hi everyone, I wanted to discuss a few points about this society idea. Firstly, something has been bothering me regarding the website idea. So let me talk about that first: "it would aslo be a good idea if it acted as an umbrella group for the variosu othe rgroups, ie cybersnail, here, save the snails and sarahs houghtons snail rescue group, as well as the various other websites and that." Ceiron, you seem to be leaning toward writing an entirely new website for this society should it come to fruition. I'd like to make it clear that when I began work on the website it was intended to be different from cybersnail, save the snails and other people's personal pages. That was the entire point. I didn't wish for a site detailing all my snails. I wanted to aid the community, and to use my site to compile information to make it encyclopedic and to glue the community together in loads of cool ways. I have been trying to do that since I started it. Now, it may be that you never saw the development version which has the members section available to view and I am wondering if that is the source of confusion, perhaps for others also. I wanted my website to be the hub and archive for a society. In truth I hadn't thought about a formal society at the time, but a community all the same. You are suggesting registering a different name. I have no problem with that at all, but I think the domain would be better pointed at a section on my website. If we don't do it this way we lose all integration between the society members and the facilities my site will eventually have (some of which are nearly ready now). I am not bothered about the name petsnails.co.uk. My original name was pulmonata.co.uk and in fact, if you go there you will reach my website. The petsnails.co.uk was suggested as being perhaps more accessible to younger people. So, my point is this. Not only am I lucky enough to have access to a hosting environment, I actually built and installed the server myself, and I administrate it myself. So, this gives us total control over any facilities we need. I get most internet services for free anyway but because I am the superuser on the machine, we can do things that would never be allowed or available on a normal hosted environment, should the need arise. This gives us the equivalent professionalism that only companies could match at practically 0 cost. I'm not saying it would always be free, but it will always be a lot cheaper. Secondly, I think creating another website would greatly impoverish the project in some ways. We would lose all the integration that I have worked hard to make possible. Members of a society hosted on my box would get access to all the custom snail software I am currently writing. I don't wish for my site to be one of the things under the umbrella so-to-speak, to me that doesn't make sense. I am happy to change the name of the website to something society related but it was intended to be the backbone. Personally I think leaving the name as it is fine; at the end of the day when you split the encyclopedic and community part of the website away from the society, there isn't much left in terms of pages needing publishing. The society part would have it's home on the same site, with a good distinction between the various areas. One of the major problems a multinational society would face, is facilities to improve communication between us, to collate our research and to stop duplication and repetition in terms of effort and information. With it being part of my website, I can write custom facilities to enable us to do whatever we need, rather than try and cobble together things that nearly do the job. I have many, many ideas about this. If the need arises (and I think it will) I can author a full admin section so members can actually add and alter the information on the website themselves. I think we will need this, it empowers people and offers a way to involve all members regardless of how techno-savvy they are. And we will need all the help we can get. It seems counter-productive to re-invent the wheel and to lose the integration and control we would otherwise have. Sorry to bang on about it, I am not trying to dictate here. If everyone thinks that this is a crap idea, I will understand. It is just that I have a particular interest in this area. I wanted to offer the skills and resources I have for something truly worthwhile and having put pure time into it to date I'd like to see it used to the full rather than be made redundant or a very similar site authored from scratch to go alongside it. To sum up, my website is at the disposal of ALL the society members, it is not my site alone and can be changed as we see fit. I hope this doesn't sound arsey, and I am not directing it solely at you Ceiron. Not at all. It is just that your post gave me the opportunity to make my point. Ok, next thing...... I talked to Birte who had talked to Fredrik about individual country societies and an umbrella one. I think after discussion we thought it would be better to have just one worldwide society. Instead of formal country societies under that, members of a society based in one country can meet up, do whatever they want without such formality. We may as well all stick together. I am a great believer in collaboration. It is likely that more active members in a country will take on jobs that need doing to make our work accessible to others in their country. For instance, someone in Sweden or Germany etc could translate a newsletter or document if needed. We don't need to split it up so formally. It makes things far less complicated in my opinion. Membership cost. I am unsure about this, firstly I think children should join for free regardless. I really wouldn't like to exlude anyone who wished to join. In my heart, I would like it to be free for everyone. I think money could be raised in other ways. It could be donation based. Perhaps members would donate if they felt like it. Or we could run competitions, snail auctions etc. To begin with, we need maximum membership and I see the idea taking place mostly on-line to be honest, with costs fairly low. Some people will hopefully be able to meet up and maybe we can even arrange a lecture or something but not everyone will be in a position to benefit from these things. I am currently getting sponsorship from Linda & Daz (thanks once again!). I am putting this towards buying books and scientific papers etc. I mean, I think we can cover the costs we need initially fairly easily, through various methods. Another idea would be to offer a free membership but if you pay you get something. I don't know what though. I think free membership will not only give us more reach to people who are not well off, it will also reach more people generally. This is important if we are to climb the mountain of research. I personally am interested in what we could all create together and what we could learn, not the accolade of being a member. The society is a fantastic way to bring us together, but it is not the point in itself if you see what I mean. Roles. It has been discussed that we need people to offer their services in terms of roles. Benevolent leaders if you will, not to have the say, but to organise and keep everyone focussed. I think it is a good idea. I offer to do all the coding and to maintain the knowledge base. We need a list of what roles are needed and who fancies doing what. No doubt some jobs may need to be shared. I know Correne has offered to be secretary. I think one of the advantages of the society is that we can set something up where we can have a contacts system, allowing anyone to reply to emails and enquiries and we can all see what is going on. That should help spread the work load and we'll all have common email addresses we can use. I think formality is not necessarily a good thing at this stage. After reading a lot of the structure of other societies etc, they seem to offer things we perhaps cannot provide yet such as books written by themselves etc. We can aim to become as professional as them but for now I think we need to set something up as we see fit and start doing stuff under one name. Perhaps we can formalise the affair on paper when the need arises. I think the biggest barriers to us now are getting everyone heard and finding the information. Communicating by typing is not the same as thrashing it all out in a room together. We need to reaffirm where we are up to at every opportunity. So I intend to create a society category on this forum. That way we can split the topics up to make it easier to follow. For the information side, things need to be researched. I have trawled the web looking for information and I think in many cases we need to bombard people in the know with questions. So, to remove repetition we will maintain a list of who's been contacted about what and when and what websites have been found. We will compile a list of every snail-related page we can find. Not only is that incredibly useful from a directory point of view, it stops us all saying "have you seen this link?" over and over again, lol. I hope this has been food for thought. If it has, then bon appetite Over and out. paul
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Post by Paul on May 8, 2005 19:15:48 GMT
Birte, it has been brought to my attention that I sounded angry. That is not the case at all. In some ways I agree with what you said, I just wanted to inspire debate!
If I did sound like that it is a real shame. I want everyone to speak their mind and not worry about upsetting anyone, especially me lol.
paul
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Post by Paul on May 8, 2005 19:04:24 GMT
I am gonna look this week. Hopefully I can host a freebie or if it comes to it, I'll write one for us all to use that does what we need. I can have one written in a week if we just want simple features.
paul
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Post by Paul on May 8, 2005 18:31:04 GMT
Hi,
Ceiron, you didn't miss much, we had loads of problems getting everyone in the same chat room for a number of reasons. So, it had been postponed while I sort out a better way. If you're thinking you may have a solution here is what we need.
Not a yahoo, MSN, ICQ, Aol etc chat room Cannot be Java or ActiveX or anything that is not guaranteed to work on browsers other than Internet Exploder. Must be able to get to the room without having to be invited Must be able to copy or save the conversation
paul
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Post by Paul on May 8, 2005 15:29:54 GMT
I don't think it is a bad idea in principle but I wonder if it defeats the object a little. One of the most attractive ideas of a society for me was to get everyone working together researching information. I think splitting this up by country would impoverish that quite a bit.
I understand from a communication point of view, but from a centralised point of information angle, I'm not sure it is a good idea unless we could find a way to pool our efforts.
You see, before, when I asked around about language difficulties it seemed that everyone had concluded that it wasn't a problem, most Europeans speak english so efforts to translate etc were redundant.
Can you explain what the point of splitting it up is? I know you mention communication within a group would be easier. Fair point, but I can't see any other advantages at all.
paul
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