Long face, mantle collapse, recovery then death

[galsforpals]

Several of my giant African land snails are making odd faces, especially when they are asleep. As I lost one at the end of October, I'm increasingly concerned and trying to educate myself as much as possible.

I've been hand feeding the snail of most concern. I saw it mentioned somewhere else that their snail made an odd "long face" as a warning sign before gut extrusion. I'll try to find the post. Hard to describe but essentially while my snails usually look like they have rabbit faces, when she is asleep she makes a sort of disturbing horse face.

I don't believe that her radula or any gut is coming out but I can't find detailed enough diagrams and pictures to confirm this. I think her radula is the white "beak" I can sometimes see kind of scooping at food if she's against the tank wall, but this is still not visible in the case I'm describing. It looks like her rough, ridged upper lip is sort of stuck out. When awoken she very quickly pulls her face in and has a more rounded face but I'm just finding it odd and worrying as my larger older snails don't seem to sleep with this face. She's about 4 years old and is much smaller than her potential due to incorrect care early in life. (She is currently between 90 and 100 grams as I'm weighing her daily to make sure she's not loosing weight). Any thoughts?


She's now got mantle collapse (the dreaded "mantle sticking out like a sock" thing. Here are links to photos of her face and also the current mantle collapse)

Face pre mantle collapse: imgur.com/a/Bzjta70

Mantle collapse this morning:
imgur.com/a/R2yDhQl

[snaileyhammy]

Hi there!

I have never heard of them making faces being a sign of guy extrusion, etc. The making those strange faces when they sleep is just a normal behavior, and I don’t think you should be too worried. If someone has said they think that is a symptom, etc, I wouldn’t be too sure of it, because they probably don’t have any real proof of it. With that all said, I would just keep a close eye on your snails just to be sure, but I think everything will be ok!



Oh, and the radula sounds perfectly fine to me!

[galsforpals]

Nov 27, 2021 16:06:51 GMT snaileyhammy said:

Hi there!

I have never heard of them making faces being a sign of guy extrusion, etc. The making those strange faces when they sleep is just a normal behavior, and I don’t think you should be too worried. If someone has said they think that is a symptom, etc, I wouldn’t be too sure of it, because they probably don’t have any real proof of it. With that all said, I would just keep a close eye on your snails just to be sure, but I think everything will be ok!



Oh, and the radula sounds perfectly fine to me!

You are a star snaileyhammy. I've seen how often you answer questions and I think that's really wonderful. I might post separately but had another question so thought I might ask here. My snails also have some sort of patches on their eye stalks I'm a little worried about: will try to link a picture but they look like little scars, injuries, patches or something and I cannot find anything on this anywhere!

[galsforpals]

imgur.com/a/HPBofs8

Picture of eye stalks marks

[snaileyhammy]

Aw you are so sweet!! You’re welcome!

I’m not sure what the patches could be, they could be just scars from an incident, or maybe just normal markings. They don’t appear harmful though.

[galsforpals]

Nov 27, 2021 16:06:51 GMT snaileyhammy said:

Hi there!

I have never heard of them making faces being a sign of guy extrusion, etc. The making those strange faces when they sleep is just a normal behavior, and I don’t think you should be too worried. If someone has said they think that is a symptom, etc, I wouldn’t be too sure of it, because they probably don’t have any real proof of it. With that all said, I would just keep a close eye on your snails just to be sure, but I think everything will be ok!



Oh, and the radula sounds perfectly fine to me!

Finally managed to take good pictures of Oscar's sleeping face - she fell asleep eating some grapes with mush.

imgur.com/a/Bzjta70

[galsforpals]

She's still alive but has suffered a mantle collapse. She's swollen out of her shell,her mantle was out by a few m so I immobilized her overnight in a small container. I've gently pushed her mantle back in but need to figure how to euthanize her as it doesn't seem likely she'd be able to survive

imgur.com/a/R2yDhQl

[snaileyhammy]

I see. The weird face thing is completely normal, snails do it often. It is quite strange. And, how long has her mantle been like this? How did it happen?

[SuspiciousBagel]

Oh gosh, im terribly sorry about Oscar. The strange elongated mouth when sleeping could have been an early sign of a prolapsed radula so if you have any other snails showing signs definitely keep an eye on them and try giving them a bath in sugar water or very dilute and room temperature chamomile tea if they worsen. 

With mantle collapse, especially this severe, there's, unfortunately, no way the snail is going to survive much longer. If you haven't yet euthanized for a GALS I would suggest dipping them in a 5% alcohol solution for 30 minutes, then into boiling water or freezing them. If you do this you can also then keep the shell afterwards. I know it sounds very gory but unfortunately, its the kindest way to do it- the alcohol will put them to sleep almost immediately anyway so they won't feel any pain. My condolences again that this happened

[galsforpals]

Dec 1, 2021 19:37:10 GMT SuspiciousBagel said:

Oh gosh, im terribly sorry about Oscar. The strange elongated mouth when sleeping could have been an early sign of a prolapsed radula so if you have any other snails showing signs definitely keep an eye on them and try giving them a bath in sugar water or very dilute and room temperature chamomile tea if they worsen. 

With mantle collapse, especially this severe, there's, unfortunately, no way the snail is going to survive much longer. If you haven't yet euthanized for a GALS I would suggest dipping them in a 5% alcohol solution for 30 minutes, then into boiling water or freezing them. If you do this you can also then keep the shell afterwards. I know it sounds very gory but unfortunately, its the kindest way to do it- the alcohol will put them to sleep almost immediately anyway so they won't feel any pain. My condolences again that this happened

Thank you so much. It happened last night a few mm so I immobilized her comfortably in a small container just in case it was just a momentary thing but it got way worse overnight and so have been trying to keep her comfortable whilst dying. I appreciate you giving the euthanization information - I'm somewhat hopeful she will pass on her own as I feel nauseous thinking about harming her intentionally - another reason top of my to-do list is to find a snail-aware exotic pet vet so that in the future I don't risk causing pain with inaction. I wasn't feeling able to research euthanization so appreciate you giving me a starting point.

[galsforpals]

Dec 1, 2021 19:37:10 GMT SuspiciousBagel said:

The strange elongated mouth when sleeping could have been an early sign of a prolapsed radula so if you have any other snails showing signs definitely keep an eye on them and try giving them a bath in sugar water or very dilute and room temperature chamomile tea

For future reference do you happen to know the purpose of the sugar water or it's mechanism of action? I've done (dilute, cooled) green tea baths before, so assume camomile is similar.

[snaileyhammy]

I guess at this point just see how things turn out. The face thing may or may not have been a big deal, but at this point I guess it isn't your main focus. If you aren't comfortable with euthanizing them, that's ok I completely understand. Just keep an eye on everything for a while. I believe the purpose of green tea baths, etc, is that the green tea is very nutritious to snails, and help them heal. Some believe it is the caffeine content that helps DRS, but we don't really have any evidence of that I assume. The sugar water I believe is to provide energy for the snail, and help them heal, etc. I don't think we really have much proof of the benefits of either, but that's ok. As for a vet, you can actually look for a normal exotic vet in your area, and they may work on snails. I actually found a phenomenal one in my area who does all kinds of stuff with frogs and sometimes snails. So, you never know what you might find. If your lil snail here gets to a point where he has to be euthanized, I think an exotic vet might do that for you as well. What SuspicousBagel told you however, is the best way to euthanize, if you have to do it yourself.

I hope your snail gets better, or improves a little with the mantle collapse and all.

[snaileyhammy]

I had no clue that those face could be a sign of a broken radula. I am so sorry about that. But now I know for further cases!

[SuspiciousBagel]

Dec 2, 2021 10:47:40 GMT galsforpals said:

Dec 1, 2021 19:37:10 GMT SuspiciousBagel said:

The strange elongated mouth when sleeping could have been an early sign of a prolapsed radula so if you have any other snails showing signs definitely keep an eye on them and try giving them a bath in sugar water or very dilute and room temperature chamomile tea

For future reference do you happen to know the purpose of the sugar water or it's mechanism of action? I've done (dilute, cooled) green tea baths before, so assume camomile is similar.

Chamomile is used in snail keeping to treat swelling, which may help in the case of a prolapse. Sugar water, like snaileyhammy said, is also used to give snails energy. Also as snaileyhammy said, unfourtunately there's not much definitive evidence that they've helped, its just in theory. Its still worth a try though!

[galsforpals]

Dec 2, 2021 15:55:32 GMT snaileyhammy said:

I hope your snail gets better, or improves a little with the mantle collapse and all.

Thank you snaileyhammy. I couldn't face euthanizing her yet so will see if I can find a vet who would do it if necessary (which seems highly likely). I thought she'd be taken by the big spiral in the sky today but nope, she's having a lil nap on the grated carrot she showed interest in. I've just been immobilizing her as much as possible (just a smaller container than usual and since last night only about 1/4 of the edge of her mantle on her right hand side is poking out by maybe 5mm.) And it seems to have stabilized and isn't getting worse at least. I'm still prepared and realistic about her (low to none) chances but at least gives me time to find a vet to euthanize her (shouldn't be too hard as I'm near a big UK city).

[galsforpals]

Here's how she's doing at the moment. She's surprisingly chipper and interested in water and food. She spends 10-30 minutes awake before falling asleep again and I've seen her retract and other normal snail behavior but she's not traveling around - partly I don't think she has the energy, partly I've purposely not made it easy.

Her mantle tear is not visible in this picture, it remains unchanged since yesterday: I have no idea if snails can calcify small amounts of pretruding mantle but I'm keeping her moist.

My main goal is to keep her comfortable.

imgur.com/a/dHYh5CO

[galsforpals]

Soooooo, I'm not getting my hopes up too much but Oscar is being well. Her mantle is now fully inside her shell, and she's pooping normal poop. I'm fairly confused! Gonna continue this care program as at least seems to be helping her feel a bit more snail like.

imgur.com/a/a36d1DV

[snaileyhammy]

I meant to reply to you yesterday, but I must have forgotten. I think you are doing the right thing . As long as you are both comfortable, things look good to me. If things seems to be getting worse at any point, possibly try and take that next step, and find a vet. They might even be able to help. I am thrilled she is showing signs of improvement!! Though I don't know how much she will be able to recover, I guess we can just wait and see what happens. 

[galsforpals]

Her mantle is looking fine but her head looks like it's got a water balloon *inside* it. Very odd shape, and bulging of her genital pore. People have described what to do when there is a prolapse that is external but I have no idea what I can do if it's not external

imgur.com/a/MxgiErn

I've got an appointment with an exotic vet but it's Thursday and I don't know I'd she'll make it that long

[snaileyhammy]

Ok, well that’s good! Unfortunately the information we have currently about external prolapses, etc, is a bit shakey, so an internal prolapse I’m not so sure about, and there isn’t much information on. Your best bet is go to an exotic vet, and see if they can help any. Let me know how things go ok!

[galsforpals]

Unfortunately she passed away yesterday; the bloating just got worse. I really appreciate you being there for the journey. I wrote her a little poem and made a Memorium album of photos of her from better times. I'm gonna have a tiny snail funeral for her tomorrow. Snails, they sure have an impressive skill at sneaking into your heart.

[snaileyhammy]

I am so sorry. I know how much she meant to you <3 and you gave her an amazing life! She was an amazing snail, and you are an amazing snail owner, don't forget that, ok.

[SuspiciousBagel]

Dec 8, 2021 2:06:44 GMT galsforpals said:

Unfortunately she passed away yesterday; the bloating just got worse. I really appreciate you being there for the journey. I wrote her a little poem and made a Memorium album of photos of her from better times. I'm gonna have a tiny snail funeral for her tomorrow. Snails, they sure have an impressive skill at sneaking into your heart.

I am so sorry for your loss. Oscar was a beautiful snail and clearly lived a great life with you ♥ 

[pyszka]

I have a snail with weird faces too. My snail have a mantle tear, started to showing same 'long horse-like faces' and now he's swollen... I will euthanize him tomorrow if he'll not came back to health (or at least stopped getting worse).