Severe Mantle Infection (?)

[narumi]

Hi everyone,

my little cantareus apertus snail (a little over 2 years old) is sick (please see photos below). This has been steadily developing over the last couple of months. Every visible bit of her mantle is affected. The vet I took her to said that basically all we can do is try and prevent a secondary infection and hope that she will get better on her own. He gave me some kind of pH-neutral iodine solution that I am supposed to apply to the affected areas; however, it has been difficult to get to those spots when the mantle is retracted and the shell is lowered. The vet did not take a swab because (as far as I understand), in his opinion, that would catch only superficial bacteria and would not reveal the actual source of the infection or whatever that is. I have asked about certain treatments I have read about (such as clotrimazole, for example), but he said that without knowing what exactly it is we’re dealing with, we might just end up harming her more by using those.

Her activity level had been pretty good, however, since DEC 27, she has not moved from the corner she is sleeping in, and her appetite is very low (she only moves to change her sleeping position). She does peek out though when I spray the enclosure, and I have gotten her to eat a little by placing some food right in front of her. I was thinking of making a new brew from Indian almond leaves and offering her a medicinal clay bath, but other than that, I do not know what else to do. She is currently being „quarantined“, aka kept without substrate as per the vet’s initial recommendation of trying to keep her in an as clean environment as possible. I have been weary of adding new substrate as I do not want it to become some kind of hotbed for an infection.

There has not been any visible improvement so far. I am really worried that this mantle situation will extend or is already extending to her organs and/or shell.

If anyone here has any suggestions or feedback on what it is we’re dealing with and what I could do to help her, I would appreciate it so, so much. Thank you.

 

[snaileyhammy]

Hello there! I am sorry to hear about your snail!

I do know that In some cases, swollen mantles occur after mating. And sometimes with Cornu aspersum, it's a natural thing. Although I don't really know how true these ideas are. What you are showing, does look a bit worse then just a swollen mantle though. So, If I were you, I would take her back to the vet and get the infected area tested, under the skin, to know what you are dealing with here. If this is an infection, you want to get it taken care of as soon as possible, or else it could get worse, and potentially kill her. I am not sure how worse, because you don't really know what you are dealing with here, and there is not known about sails in general.

For now, keep her comfortable in quarantine, and check the parameter. It could be a bit too cold or dry for her, etc. Possibly try moving her on the food, and maybe she will come out then.

I will do some research, and let you know if I find anything! I hope that helps!

[narumi]

Jan 7, 2022 16:21:37 GMT snaileyhammy said:

Hello there! I am sorry to hear about your snail!

I do know that In some cases, swollen mantles occur after mating. And sometimes with Cornu aspersum, it's a natural thing. Although I don't really know how true these ideas are. What you are showing, does look a bit worse then just a swollen mantle though. So, If I were you, I would take her back to the vet and get the infected area tested, under the skin, to know what you are dealing with here. If this is an infection, you want to get it taken care of as soon as possible, or else it could get worse, and potentially kill her. I am not sure how worse, because you don't really know what you are dealing with here, and there is not known about sails in general.

For now, keep her comfortable in quarantine, and check the parameter. It could be a bit too cold or dry for her, etc. Possibly try moving her on the food, and maybe she will come out then.

I will do some research, and let you know if I find anything! I hope that helps!

Hello, and thank you so much for your reply!!! (Not sure if I am supposed to quote the reply or not ^^"). Just a quick note: she is not a cornu aspersum but a cantareus apertus The mantle is not usually swollen and I can guarantee that she hasn't mated with another snail. The problem is all that white stuff -- her mantle is usually more or less the colour of her foot. While it was still developing, the white stuff was 'in' the mantle tissue, but in the most affected spots, like left of the breathing hole, it has developed its own texture that has grown to sit 'on top of' the organic tissue. One guess would be that it got infected while she was in aestivation -- unfortunately, she had not been able to build a calcium lid and had spent many months in the soil with only the mantle for protection. ;(((

May I ask: what exactly do you mean by 'under the skin'? I thought one would probably need something like a biopsy of this white stuff? Not sure if that is realistic or why the vet hasn't suggested that. :/// He lives pretty far a way, and it is both a very long and expensive trip, sigh.

Would you recommend putting in some new substrate or rather stick with something like moss, cork bark and leaves for now? Also, do you think medicinal clay baths/Indian almond leaves brew would be contraindicated in this case or should I try them?

Again, thank you so much for your reply!!!

[snaileyhammy]

Hey! It is perfectly fine to quote the reply btw. But, of course!

I was aware your snail is not a Cornu, I was just stating, that this is something that is considered normal for some species. The mantle IS swollen, but it looks like this could be more than just a swollen mantle, is what I meant. I wonder if maybe the mantle is like this due to the attempt at aestivation, but it is hard to tell. And yes, doing a biopsy or culture is what I would do. I am also not sure why your vet wouldn't suggest this. Although, I am not a vet, so maybe they didn't think it was necessary. I would advise seeking out a better vet, and taking your snail there. If this is an infection, it could potentially spread and harm your snail greatly. Snails have very porous skin, like frogs, and breathe most through they skin. If the infection spreads it could stop them from breathing, etc. I am not certain though how accurate that would be, and exactly how the infection would spread through the snails body, but I guess it's good to always be aware of what could happen.

I went through issue very similar with one of my frogs, and realized exactly how similar frogs and snails can be. The expense will most likely be the worst part, but it is worth it. However, this situation is a bit more tricky, as this is a snail, there is little known about snails, and I'm not sure how good the vet care is there.

For now, changing the substrate and moss out should be ok, but only do it once, and spot clean regularly. I am not sure if the Indian almond brew would help any, but you can try. You can also try doing sugar water baths to aid her in healing, and get her more active, and some green tea baths.

Sorry for any misinformation I may give you, or if anything I say makes no sense. It is very hard for me to determine exactly what you should do, as I am not a vet nor a snail expert. I am doing research, and increasing my knowledge, to get to that point one day where I will be able to establish snail vet care, but for now I'm just learning, and that's ok. I will try my absolute bets to help you!

[narumi]

Thank you very much for your reply and suggestions!!! I have put in new substrate, however, she has still not moved from her "sleeping corner." I have managed to get her to eat a tiny bit and am continuing to swab her with the iodine solution. I have the feeling that the mantle is lightly starting to improve, however, I am still very worried because I do not know what damage might have been caused internally, and because she is so inactive/has so little appetite. When I do wake her up for food she seems quite normal though, so that gives me a little bit of hope that she might just be resting/recovering.

I anyone has any further suggestions or input, I would still very much appreciate them. Thank you!!!

[snaileyhammy]

Of course!

I would for now, worry only about getting her mantle back in shape. If there was any internal damage done, you can deal with it later in. Just let her rest, and get some food. Snails can go long periods without food, so she shouldn’t starve.

I do hope she makes a fast recovery!!