Snail health research idea

[Paul]

I'm sticking this here because I'm hoping someone may wish to take this idea up.

Just wrote my reply to Lisa, and an idea occurred to me that we may or may not have already discussed.

It seems to me that Snail Farms have a vested interest in snail health and in the spirit of the enemy of my enemy is my friend we could possible do something with this.

Currently snail farmers are likely to destroy any snails showing signs of illness. I've never seen any details of mite treatment; fredrik suggested I try them because they are used for reptiles, so I did and they work. Maybe they already know because the info is likely to be old but I wonder if we could find out what they know, however unlikely,
or encourage them to do research in a way that we would get the results.

There's also the possibility of obtaining government research, like the US Gov document you've probably seen.


Any ideas?

[snakelady]

Hi Paul,

I've read a couple of threads on disease research, plus your most recent post. And I think research is desperately needed.
I wondered if any of the zoos could offer advice or information?

But your comment in your last post, really got me thinking - the comment regarding government funding.

I wondered if you had considered approaching a potential PhD Zoologists candidate. As you know these post-graduate students must find a new area of research to obtain funding.

Over the last week, as I have observed snakelady, I have become very convinced that she is suffering from some form of poisoning. As I'm sure you know poisoning can occur at many levels - from acute fatal poisoning to chronic long term poisoning, and even sub-clinical poisoning. With the two later cases [even acute poisoning which isn't fatal] a phenomena called TILT [Toxically Induced Lose of Tolerance] can, and often does occur.

When this condition occurs in humans, several names may be applied including - Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Gulf War Syndrome, and several other "overlap syndromes", including Organophosphate poisoning, and Organgochlorine poisoning [sometimes even the heavy metal poisonings, like mercury are included].

Though, the government, and medical profession, are on the whole reluctant to investigate, acknowledge or treat these conditions [mainly due to financial reasons], one area of medicine is interested in these conditions, IE Environmental Medicine. Some Immunologists are starting to show slight interest, and dragging their heels, very few gastroenterologists/liver specialists.

As a sufferer of systemic poisoning, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, I [through medical neglect] have been forced to study these pathophysiologies. And I believe that zoologists could learn much from Environmental Medicine, and vice-versa.
If I were a post-graduate student, I would certainly be intrigued by the prospect of investigating the correlations between the two species.

I don't think anyone could deny that slugs and snails get a very raw deal from practically everyone, and a multitude of specific potions are widely used to destroy these little creatures. Those who "survive" are indeed a community suffering from poisoning to some degree or other, probably with a form of Chemical Sensitivity, Tilt, Liver Damage [with subsequent metabolic problems],and Leaky Gut Syndrome [with subsequent Immunological imbalances].

Researching all levels of poisoning in Gastropods, could yield tremendous information, and treatment protocols for not only slugs and snails, but also humans. Such a proposal maybe very enticing to a potential post-graduate student.

If such a project were suggested by the forum, we may well get access to much of the research materials and results.
I'd be very interested in hearing other members opinions on this subject.

Best Wishes Snakelady

[Paul]

I like your idea though with gastropod and mammal biology being so different I'm not sure someone could retrieve useful information for humans with research on molluscs. I'm sure some relationship exists, it's whether someone could build the case that the relationship is enough to justify it.

It's getting some to care really that's the problem. The environmental impact of slugs and snails absorbing and eating chemicals and their impact on the food chain sound the most appealing angle to someone in a position to test these things. However, I imagine a sample of snails to see what their picking up and how it is affecting their predators or members of our food chain would be the aim of the experiment, rather than finding a way to treat the animals.

We need some sort of cross-over that provides a student with what they would determine as a "reasonable study", with an aim to helping prove the case for environmental concerns and the safety of product consumption but that somehow results in us knowing more about what affects them and how we can minimise it for our own snails. Because I think it will be a long, long, long time before we see any reasonable reduction in pollutants.

[snegledame]

Actually, great similiarities have been found between snail neurones and those of humans. Hence, a great deal of scientific study has been and continues to be devoted to these creatures and their possible interactions (whether coincidentally - by a shared environment (e.g., the effects of hard metals on the snail organism (Environmental Contamination and Toxicology report commissioned by the U.S. EPA)), or introduced - in developing snail-organism based treatments for human illnessess... e.g., tumors, cancers (particularly breast cancers)). Such studies are ongoing in France, Belgium, Canada and the U.S. -- to my knowledge. They can probably also be found many other countries (best to ask this forum's resident malacologist, Robert Nordsieck for greater detail).

A great deal of scientific information is "out there" on these very topics. Frustratingly, however, access to the published reports, journals and studies requires hefty subscription fees to paper or online journals, or affiliation with a recognized research/academic institution. That's me, out of luck!

[snegledame]

...In addition:

There are a number of (chiefly) French, German, Italian, and Spanish heliciculture websites that either document (in overview) or inform (via forum discussions amongst heliciculteurs) on the plagues afflicting snails -- and their known treatments.

For example, www.gireaud.net/us/ennemis_us.htm (the translated English version, albeit a bit rough in comparison to the original French page at www.gireaud.net/ennemis.htm) lists a number of parasites, fungi and other predators and even briefly mentions the hypoaspis miles as an predatory 'antidote' to the riccardoella.

But again, the really "good stuff" is referred to by links to limited-access research documentation.

[Paul]

It's a really good page. I really need to get those nematodes identified. They look similar to the ones on that page, but obviously all nematodes look them same. I'm pretty certain they are not parasitic because they multiply and congregate in food and I've never seen any snails die because of them.

But it'd be nice to ID them for certain so we know what we are dealing with and how best to get rid of them.

The snail being separated from its shell is interesting. I've been contacted a few times about this recently and I'm wondering if that could be the explanation.

That 90 day illness is interesting also. We've seen a lot of cases of something similar but I've never heard blue liquid being mentioned. But it does raise questions about it being caused by toxins or metals.

Thanks for the link!

[snegledame]

My pleasure!

[snegledame]

This may be very exciting:

"Olive" - the moderator of snailboard Gireaud.org (http://www.gireaud.org/viewtopic.php?t=183) - describes here several treatments which she has tried and found successful in the eradication of mites from snail's organism... not only from the environment! Creatures (riccardoella) that are impossible to remove from the snail's breathing hole and which continue to plague snails after soil, food and containers have been sanitized are removed using specific dilutions of "Ivanox" (dicofol) or "Methylene Blue" (Methylthioninium chloride) + "Eau de Javel" (sodium hypochlorite or potassium hypochlorite... a "bleach").

More interestingly recommended (for their "natural" provenance, efficacity and easier administration) are "thymol" and a brand-name product, "Solabiol."

This thread [http://www.gireaud.org/viewtopic.php?t=183] is highly recommended reading!

-Snegledame
[P.S. to Paul: If a translation is needed, please ask.... I'll point other forum users who have described difficulties with the Ricco. pest to this post, but I will postpone the offer of a posted translation until you decide whether to incorporate the suggestions from gireaud.org into Petsnails.]