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Post by deadmansfinger on Jul 12, 2006 11:02:00 GMT
I remember recently it was discussed about snails eating meat in wild and it was wondered whether it would effect there growth rates etc I am considering putting this to the test unless someone has actually done it already? I have 8 baby margies and I plan to split them into 2 groups of 4, one group on a meat based diet and one on the veggie diet. What I need is info on what types of meat I should be using and how to prepare it and should their diet be 100% meat based or should there still be some veggies included? I plan to record their length and weight every couple of days. Should I record anything else?
Also if anyone has reason to think I shouldn't do this at all please also post here as I would appreciate all comments, both positive and negative.
Thanks, Brian.
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 12, 2006 11:24:41 GMT
Someone has done this before Brian, i'm sure it was on Cybersnail though. From what i remember the difference in growth from the meat eaters to the veggies was amazing!! I seem to remember the guy was feeding those protein drink thingies too, you know the ones body builders use??
We never heard (well if we did i missed it ;D) what the outcome was but i do remember the guy starting to feel a bit guilty for experimenting to such a degree on his snails and worrying about the amazing growth rate affecting the snails long term. Stick a message on Cybersnail too i'm sure someone will remember it.
But, yeah, i think its a great idea and not totally unatural either, if snails suppliment their diet in the wild with meat. What sort of meat are you thinking of feeding? Not KFC i hope lol ;D
Anjie,x.
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Post by deadmansfinger on Jul 12, 2006 11:51:45 GMT
I would probably hope to use something like strips of beef, chicken or pork etc since it is readily available.
The KFC is all mine though ;D
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Post by Paul on Jul 12, 2006 11:51:52 GMT
I think it stands to reason that high-protein food will mean larger snails. It is the case with other animals, in fact there is a massive difference in some animals, with almost 3 times the growth rate.
I wonder if the stunted growth of a few snails in captivity would have been alleviated, at least in part by a higher protein diet? Having said that, I have a stunted one that readily eats hemp, which has an enormous amount of the protein edestrine, which is the protein model and the easiest to digest. I suppose it comes down to animal derived protein over vegetable derived protein.
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gabi
Achatina tincta
Posts: 616
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Post by gabi on Jul 12, 2006 12:51:28 GMT
My Margies and Tigers prefer animal-protein to vegetable ones. I have tested several times and they let the sweetcorn, hemp or soja beside and eat first the dead grasshoppers or crickets or worms. Even my huge Margie from Anjie from Brixton last year started now to build new shell and the old tiger from Catherine Rio too has new shell growth. I am giving to them now since 3 Month with every feeding vegetabel protein (and of course other fruits, salad and veggies and weds too). Animal protein do I give ones or twice a week. I think, they donĀ“t find in nature daily animal-proteine. Since that they are doing (together with good humidity and wet substrate and proper temps) really great.
Kind regards,
Gabi
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Post by section8angel on Jul 12, 2006 12:58:33 GMT
Crickets?! Woohoo! I can get rid of these noisy things even quicker!! (The bug grub and water gel they've eaten wont effect the snails will it?) I've not actually tried mine with any meat before. I keep meaning to but always forget
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 12, 2006 13:21:21 GMT
lol Sian, does your bedroom sound like a barmy night in a tropical country ;D God i love that noise. Anjie,x.
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Post by section8angel on Jul 12, 2006 14:29:34 GMT
Rofl. They're actually quite relaxing when they chirp, it's the other funny noises they make that are annoying me!! Luckily the smaller ones are silent. I don't know why the bigger ones aren't, maybe they got them mixed up I might see if I can nick some of the scraps the dogs normally get and try the snailies with that too lol.
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Post by x Sarah x on Jul 12, 2006 15:28:43 GMT
This si the messege off cybersnail...
"I had an idea about three weeks ago when I arrived home and noticed a large slug eating the remains of something that had come off the worst with a car. Although Im familiar with achatina as well as other gastropods are pretty much unphased by the odd spot of cannibalism and that meat eating was not off their agenda I started a little experiment. I took twenty newly hatched A.Marginatas and put ten into one tank and ten into the other. Both sets are treated exactly the same only one set I allow them to have meat. Freshly put in in the evening and removed when I get up to go to work. The result so far is that tank A containing the vegetarians is as follows: all still no bigger than a pea, 3 have died, cuttlefish still as new. Tank B containing the omnivors: all are larger than a pea, mostly 2cm and the largest and most active tonight is 29mm from apex to umbilicus (it was 28mm last night), none have died and I have had to refresh the 2" piece of cuttlefish and unlike the veggies the omnivorous lot are active throughout the day. They also like turle food and chiken jalfrezi (only the once!) Though I have been reliably informed NOT to give them pasta or high carb items. It will kill them in a horrible way and also watch out for the salt if they're to be given fish. They have not stopped eating their greens as if that was to happen they certainly wouldn't be getting any meat again. What does anyone think about this, let me know. PS, they also like watching the TV...?! maybe its the flickering light?"
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Post by x Sarah x on Jul 12, 2006 15:33:20 GMT
What foods were used?
He replied...
"The meat used was raw fish, beef, lamb, venison and turtle food. They also like vanilla protien shake but I wouldnt recommend it unless you want to end up with musclebound snails forcing the lid off the vivarium. I measured the leader today and it has only gained 0.5mm today. I dont like giving things names but if you have any suggestions I'm all ears!"
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 12, 2006 16:20:34 GMT
Nice one Sarah, knew i wasn't going mad ;D
Anjie,x.
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Sally
Achatina achatina
Posts: 75
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Post by Sally on Jul 12, 2006 19:00:02 GMT
So without sounding too thick would this meat be given raw or cooked first before feeding ie chicken,beef etc??
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 12, 2006 20:18:37 GMT
Not thick, i was wondering the same thing ;D unless we are both thick haha
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Jul 12, 2006 21:11:22 GMT
I feed my snails some meat and fish occasionally, the meat is usually cooked chicken and the fish is usually cooked peeled prawns, they really like the prawns. I was actually thinking of feeding them some minced raw beef to see if they would eat that as well. I think veggies should always be offered as well as meat to be a completely 'natural' diet.
Val
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Jul 12, 2006 21:13:45 GMT
What does turtle food contain?
Val
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Post by section8angel on Jul 12, 2006 21:30:56 GMT
Raw food has a higher nutritional content than cooked, I think that's how it is with all food but I don't know for sure. It looks like both can be fed anyway as Val's fed cooked and the bit Sarah posted about said raw.
Val - it probably depends on what brand it is. If you know what the brand is then it might say on their site if they have one.
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Post by deadmansfinger on Jul 13, 2006 7:55:15 GMT
so basically it's been done. who was it that did it? and did he/she have final results?
Thanks Sarah, Brian.
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Post by copigeon on Jul 13, 2006 9:37:30 GMT
If anyones going to try this, remember a few things...
Raw meat attracts more than your average fruit fly, be dilligent about removing it the next day as early as possible to prevent maggot infestations.
Snail waste when fed on vegies is processed vegtable matter, and there for doesnt smell too bad, and is safe to leave for a few days before removing. Processed meat however, I'd imagine (as with a cow vs a cat) will smell pretty bad, and is not something you want hanging around. Personally I wouldnt be comefortable without daily tank cleans.
If youre using raw meat (which makes sense) avoid chicken, stick with something like beef? Samonella is still an issue, and uncooked chicken isnt something you want hanging around for any length of time, nor do you want it on your substrate or decor or snail shells or anywhere else where it may pose a risk to your own health.
Sounds like an interesting idea, just be careful with any type of meat, left unchecked.
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Post by x Sarah x on Jul 13, 2006 12:00:04 GMT
so basically it's been done. who was it that did it? and did he/she have final results? Thanks Sarah, Brian. Apparently by the time the experiment was over, the ones fed on meat were twice the size of the remaining ones on veg. The persons username was achatina1
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Post by deadmansfinger on Jul 13, 2006 13:18:28 GMT
ok thanks again! ;D
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teresa
Achatina fulica
Posts: 0
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Post by teresa on Jul 13, 2006 14:29:00 GMT
i have just brought some prawns and it says salt content is 2.0g are these safe to feed
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Post by Paul on Jul 13, 2006 14:42:46 GMT
I would have thought they are fine, though I would rinse them, throughly, perhaps even soak them for a an hour or so if you are worried. Like most animals snails do need salt, and can ingest it. You may feel them scraping salt from your hands. But heavy salt content is bad and externally will dissolve their body.
You didn't mention the overall weight so I can't tell how much 2g is as a percentage. 2g in 5 prawns is a lot, 2g in 500 is trace amounts.
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apple
Archachatina degneri
Posts: 1,078
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Post by apple on Jul 13, 2006 14:48:38 GMT
Very interesting thread! Simply fantastic.
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Sally
Achatina achatina
Posts: 75
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Post by Sally on Jul 13, 2006 18:21:46 GMT
I have just fed my Fulicias and Tigers some raw languistines (think i spelt it right!) as i could'nt find any raw ones.
The Fulicia who are 18 months old did'nt seem to bothered but the 3 Tiger bubs (7 months) from Gabi love it . The Mini tiger bubs from Anjie (4 months) were having a nibble but i think they were a bit undecided.
I thought i would give it a go raw as in the wild the meat would be raw not cooked...........
Anyone else tried raw yet?
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Jul 13, 2006 21:19:27 GMT
Not yet but I am going to get some tomorrow, I have been thinking about this and I really don't think now that an all veggie diet is ideal, I am sure that in the wild these snails would eat quite a bit of carrion and perhaps this accounts for the huge size difference of the rescued ones compared to our captive veggie ones. I am going to try raw minced beef and raw pork and I was also thinking of trying offal. Anyone here tried offal either raw or cooked? I agree with copigeon that I shall have to be very dilligent with tank cleaning!! Val
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