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Post by whodoesntlovesnails on Jan 23, 2008 3:34:49 GMT
what could be in tap water that could e dangerous 2 snails...other than lead i guess
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Jan 23, 2008 23:02:40 GMT
Some of the contaminants in my local municipal water include trihalomethanes, cryptosporidium, MTBE, chloramine and NDMA. Those chemicals cannot be good for snails. They are certainly not good for people! Supposedly the amounts of these contaminants are below levels that would pose a danger to the public, but many feel that the threshold is too high in the first place. Plus I have problems with chronic illness (ME), so I am extra sensitive to toxics in the environment to begin with. Chances are, if it is difficult to pronounce, it should not be in the water and is likely to be toxic to snails (and to us as well) in the long run.
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Post by whodoesntlovesnails on Jan 23, 2008 23:33:52 GMT
that is good to know, thanks
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
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Post by coyote on Jan 24, 2008 21:24:38 GMT
I don'k know about elsewhere, but in California the local water company sends all its customers a report twice a year with statistics about which contaminants have been found in its water supply, what the exact levels are, what the allowable limits are, and what the water company is doing to keep its water clean.
Keep in mind that the limits for contaminants set by the government can be too high, due to pressure from industries that don't want to have to deal with their own toxic waste. Also, certain kinds of contaminants have no maximum allowable level at all. That means that any amount of it in the water is perfectly legal. So when the water company claims that its levels of that particular contaminant do not exceed legal limits, that is no reassurance at all, when there are no legal limits to begin with.
As I said before, I am envious of people who have safe, clean tap water to drink!
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Leah
Archachatina puylaerti
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Post by Leah on Jan 25, 2008 19:48:26 GMT
but then again leah we live in devon so we are really lucky to have clean water that we know is clean That we are, and am I am very grateful for such. I guess what I meant is that you should use common sense. Don't let other people worry you into wasting your money if you've got safe tap water. But if you wouldn't drink it, it's probably best not to give it to your snails.
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Post by whodoesntlovesnails on Jan 25, 2008 23:57:04 GMT
but then again leah we live in devon so we are really lucky to have clean water that we know is clean That we are, and am I am very grateful for such. I guess what I meant is that you should use common sense. Don't let other people worry you into wasting your money if you've got safe tap water. But if you wouldn't drink it, it's probably best not to give it to your snails. i agree with the fact that if u wont drink it, dont let ur sniails.
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Post by brgwnth on Jan 27, 2008 20:49:18 GMT
but then again leah we live in devon so we are really lucky to have clean water that we know is clean That we are, and am I am very grateful for such. I guess what I meant is that you should use common sense. Don't let other people worry you into wasting your money if you've got safe tap water. But if you wouldn't drink it, it's probably best not to give it to your snails. ;D yeppers!! I agree!
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Post by ilovesnails99 on Feb 1, 2008 5:37:24 GMT
i just never thought of giving my snail anything other than bottled or filtered water.
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Post by Paul on Feb 1, 2008 10:15:44 GMT
I always use tap water for my snails. There is no fluoride added in my area. Paul, There is no fluoride in Mentadent SR toothpaste made by Unilever. It's what Ive been using lately. Unfortunately, it contains Sodium monofluorophosphate (Na2PO3F), which is roughly the same stuff as Sodium Fluoride (NaF) or Stannous fluoride (SnF2). They are all classed as fluorides because they contain fluorine ions.
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Rachel
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They see me snailin'
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Post by Rachel on Feb 1, 2008 12:56:34 GMT
kents not great for clean water, white water mabye. ours is full of chalk.
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Post by Paul on Feb 1, 2008 14:34:17 GMT
Chalk's not bad as long as it doesn't contain too much magnesium. Alkaline water is supposed to do wonders for your health, but we're talking about pH 9.5-10 so I guess a bit of chalk won't do too much. Chalky water can't be bad for snails though.
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coyote
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Cochleas ego amo
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Post by coyote on Feb 1, 2008 19:44:16 GMT
I always use tap water for my snails. There is no fluoride added in my area. Paul, There is no fluoride in Mentadent SR toothpaste made by Unilever. It's what Ive been using lately. Unfortunately, it contains Sodium monofluorophosphate (Na2PO3F), which is roughly the same stuff as Sodium Fluoride (NaF) or Stannous fluoride (SnF2). They are all classed as fluorides because they contain fluorine ions. Not all "fluoride" is the same. Sodium fluoride is a toxic chemical which is a by-product of the aluminum manufacturing process. However, sodium monofluorophosphate (or MFP fluoride) is a natural mineral, found in rocks called fluorospar. It's not toxic to people or animals, whereas sodium fluoride is. I don't know anything about stannous fluoride, so I can't comment on its toxicity or lack thereof.
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Post by Paul on Feb 3, 2008 13:55:34 GMT
However, sodium monofluorophosphate (or MFP fluoride) is a natural mineral, found in rocks called fluorospar. It's not toxic to people or animals, whereas sodium fluoride is I don't agree with that, there are countless studies, some very recent (http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic181.htm), showing that it is toxic beause it contains fluoride. I mean, you only have to look at the warnings on the toothpaste inserts about children not having more than 1 pea sized dollop. In fact, they say that half a tube of toothpaste will kill a small child. The amount found in natural spring water is probably not enough to cause major problems but it's still massively undesirable and we're talking about a lifetime of use. Fluoride rots holes in cell tissue. The more exposure, the more problems are associated with it. Some estimate (particularly the recent Chinese studies) that in areas of artificial fluoridation by the time you are a teenager, your IQ could have been lowered by as much as 10%. Children tend to drink similar amounts of water to adults but are affected more because of their lower body weight. It's also known to damage your thyroid gland. Mercury and lead occur naturally, but the effects of ingesting it are horrendous, particularly mercury.
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Feb 4, 2008 0:02:48 GMT
Hmm, that's an intersting link.
Although it mentions sodium monofluorophosphate in toothpaste as a possible source of fluoride poisoning, it also says "Historically, most cases of fluoride toxicity have followed accidental ingestion of insecticides or rodenticides", which it says are sodium fluoride.
Lower down on the page under Causes it also says, "Toothpaste contains 1 mg/g of fluoride as sodium monofluorophosphate. This fluoride formulation has low solubility and is generally nontoxic."
I suppose an individual who was particularly sensitive to fluoride might have as toxic a reaction to sodium monofluorophosphate as others would to sodium fluoride. But there is little doubt that sodium fluoride itself is extremely dangerous; it's in rodent poison, after all!
There is definitely a lot of controversy regarding fluoride. I still think it's wise to recommend that people avoid toothpaste containing sodium fluoride, and not to drink fluoridated water.
ETA: Don't use fluoridated water in recipes, either.
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Post by helikulo on Feb 4, 2008 14:06:06 GMT
The point Paul was trying to make, if I understand him correctly, is that the inclusion of fluoride at all is pointless and based on misunderstandings. There is another also that neither of you have mentioned. In parsley fluorine is naturally occuring and is anti-bacterial. If you eat lots of it you will find it alleviates bacterial build-up in the mouth, along with other places. Many people believe they are getting fluorine when they buy toothpaste, but fluoride, if indeed it is not harmful, is a chemically-produced alternative which people pay for because they have been conned by the advertising-hype.
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Rachel
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Post by Rachel on Feb 4, 2008 18:46:01 GMT
i use mostally natural homemade herbal stuff, although not toothpaste yet, i buy a natural one though with no fluoride.
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lizzie97444
Achatina immaculata
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Post by lizzie97444 on Aug 18, 2008 12:30:43 GMT
I heard that fresh and bottled water was worse to give them. Well I'm not sure I jst heard it..
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Rachel
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Post by Rachel on Aug 18, 2008 17:17:57 GMT
Chalk's not bad as long as it doesn't contain too much magnesium. Alkaline water is supposed to do wonders for your health, but we're talking about pH 9.5-10 so I guess a bit of chalk won't do too much. Chalky water can't be bad for snails though. its not the chalk that worries me, its when you start getting brown water with bits of leaf in it. and there was the time we got loads of beetles. that was pretty gross.
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punki
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Post by punki on Oct 26, 2008 22:29:18 GMT
I use filtered water to wash their food with and boiled filtered water (cooled) to mist with. We have had a lot of problems with the quality of 'Yorkshire water' at one point when I ran the tap it smelt like neat bleach ! A local paper suggested keeping a goldfish in tap water, like a miners canary to see if the water was fit to drink or not very extreme measures for something as supposedly as plain and simple as water. Edit; I know a lot of the members on here also keep fish, so don't get miffed, I'm in no way saying to use goldfish as a disposable water tester !
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Post by ness on Aug 26, 2010 18:28:40 GMT
It's a common misconception that bottled water is better than tap water. if you look at the contents they're both pretty shocking but tap water wins because of stricter controls and standards. The only thing that bothers me is if Brown manages to get Blair's plans for putting fluoride in the water. That could be very toxic to our snails. Half a tube of toothpaste with it in can kill a child! Sodium fluoride is persistant, almost impossible to filter out, highly toxic and causes cells to explode, rots the enamel on your teeth and causes brain damage. It was studied by the Nazis and found suitable to be put in the water supply to lower brain function and make people from the villages they controlled more docile. The evidence is overwhelming. And before anyone says it's good for teeth, that's calcium fluoride. Even British Berkefield gravity filters with all the attachments can't get rid of it fully. Having said that, you try and find toothpaste without it. Humans are pretty resilient but it could be a real problem for snails... Ah someone other than myself who is suspicious of flouride! My dentist almost looked at me with contempt when I told him I didn't want my son to receive a one-off high-dose flouride tooth treatment (standard offer). There's plenty of excellent flouride-fee toothpastes out there, our teeth are good without the flouride. Back to tap water I did remember reading that Highland Spring can be used untreated as an emergency water-change for fish. I don't know how based on reliable fact this is though. I use this for my snails usually as my tap water does smell of chemicals quite often. There are animals that cannot tolerate tap water as the chemicals can build up in their systems. Fish, tadpoles, I'm sure there's more. However I can't ignore the fact that people do use tap water with their snails without any known issues. My decision is one mainly based on caution (due to the fact that some creatures are harmed by untreated tap water). It may be an uneccessary precaution, or maybe the right decision - I don't know.
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Aug 26, 2010 20:46:22 GMT
I don't think it's the case that untreated tap water would cause immediate problems in snails, but I could see a scenario where it contributes in a general way to other problems -- perhaps one snail's mantle collapse (or deep retraction, or gut extrusion, etc.) would not have happened, or would have happened much, much later, had the snail not been exposed over its lifespan to untreated tap water.
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aerliss
Achatina immaculata
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Post by aerliss on Aug 26, 2010 21:48:05 GMT
Bloody fluoridated water has mottled my teeth. Places in the UK that fluoridate water supplies: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country#United_Kingdom You can find other countries on that page too. Having said that; I use tap water for my pets. My goldfish live in untreated tap water in Tamworth, South Staffordshire. Bob is now 20 years old while Wat, Will and Rolan are 8. It all depends on where you are, what your oh so benevolent government does to your water and what type of pipes run through your house. I don't drink the tap water at work because the building is ancient and we have no idea how old the piping is or what it's made of (lead, copper etc), but at home the water's fine. I can actually drink it without adding squash, which is a rarity... I usually HATE tap water (such a snob).
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Post by crossless on Aug 26, 2010 22:44:45 GMT
I use tap water, but I think I would boil it first to use if it would got some bacteria from some contamination..
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