Possible Snail Parasite Found

[Kevin]

Today I was cleaning the housing of my Margie I recently got from Anjie, one of the Brixton ones, and discovered what I can describe as a small, furry, worm-like thing, I couldnt tell if it had legs, it had tiny bumps coming from it, it was in the snails dung, which I quickly removed, along with the other work that needed doing to his housing...The snail seems ok, he is very nocturnal, ive never seem him active in the day, he stays in his plant pot, he is very active at night though, he has eat a fair share of lettuce and corn on the cobb, and has fresh pair and cucumber available to him, as well as a dish I often top up with fresh water and a cuttlefish bone..Has anyone else noticed some worm-like things in their snails dung, or have idea's to what it can be, and whether my snail is ill?

Thanks

[anjieburdett]

Hiya Kevin.

I've had a check of all my snails, closely inspecting large quantities of snail poop - lovely job lol.

I can't see any of what you have described but i will keep a very close eye on their poo now you have pointed it out. Did you keep the 'thing'!! How big was it exactly? And what colour was it? It would be helpful to know more detail of what i am looking for.

Any chance it could have come out of the soil?? Sounds horrible hehe.

Cheers for letting me know Kevin.

Anjie,x.

[Paul]

Before you panic, what I am about to say is just to be cautious, your's don't sound like the ones I describe below but it's good advice all the same...

If you haven't thrown it away, try and get a picture of it, with something to compare for size. We need to start documenting these things and bugging experts to ID them for us.

Be very careful. I read a report that 86% of wild-caught margies in one test carried the Angiostrongylus cantonensis worm known to cause meningitus if ingested.

"Adult worms were recovered from the cardiopulmonary systems of 24 rats (20/78 Rattus norvegicus; 4/31 R. rattus) (Table). These worms had features characteristic of Angiostrongylus, including size (males measured 14-15 mm in length; females 24-26 mm in length), body shape, and prominent dark intestine (Figure 1A). The long copulatory spicules in the male worms, which measured approximately 1.2 mm (Figure 1B), are diagnostic for A. cantonensis, as the spicules of other species in the genus are generally <0.5 mm long[7]."



Taken from: 66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:8f95GAnYmmEJ:www.medscape.com/viewarticle/432072+Angiostrongylus+cantonensis+size&hl=en

Read this discussion on the parasite and how it affects snail owners:

petsnails.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=pests&action=display&n=1&thread=4354

Yours sound different but most of all, be VERY careful. Be VERY strict about hygiene and wash your hands thoroughly without fail. They may not be slightly dangerous to humans but we don't know yet.

I've been thinking of ways to rid snails of internal parasites but not much luck yet. There are herbs that help to rid things of parasites but how effective or safe they are is anyones guess. Garlic has been suggested to me, and apparently eating Daphnia may help to flush the system out. I think a lot of worms are caught from eating rat faeces. So, in many cases it could be like the rat-lung worm; it can't reproduce in the snail. In this case, a quarantine period will sort the problem out because they will either die naturally, be passed out or even if they survive for longer periods will stop becoming infectious.

There is a chance that your snails is ill, but the fact that it passed the thing out is a good sign. I think the most damaging parasites are difficult to remove but then what do I know about this? Very, very little

[Kevin]

I just emailed you details, i'll repeat them here

I flushed it down the toilet
It was about half a cm, or smaller..it was very small..The colour was white and it looked furry

The substrate I use is coco humous, I got it in dry blocks and followed the instructions to soak it in water so it can expand, its suppose to be 100% natural I got it from a website that sells amphibians, I dont think it was from the soil....I clean all my snails daily, but im going to check and clean my Margie more regulary to keep a close eye on him, I'll report if I find any more worms in his housing in this thread, hopefully it was just the one

[Kevin]

Paul, It didnt look like the parasites in them pics, it was more "grub-like" if that makes sense
Hopefully it was the only one, I was very suprised and alarmed to see it, so as a reaction, I picked it up via the dung and soil (i didnt physically touch it, I touched the dung though) and quickly flushed it down the toilet
Followed by, probably the most thourough washing of my hands ever

Garlic sounds interesting, I have wild garlic in my garden, would this be suitable? and what is daphnia?
Thanks!

[Paul]

I know what you mean about the alarm factor. It's like when you suddently think something weird has landed on you and then you make a right tit of yourself, prancing around.

But next time, if you could pop it in a jar and get a photo or something that'd be great.

[Kevin]

admin said:

I know what you mean about the alarm factor. It's like when you suddently think something weird has landed on you and then you make a right tit of yourself, prancing around.

But next time, if you could pop it in a jar and get a photo or something that'd be great.

Will do, if it happens again, it may have to be with a mobile phone camera though, as my family's digital camera's playing up and wont upload, my brothers fixing it though...

I feel like an idiot now that I didnt keep the thing
I wont be so hasty if it ever happens again

[anjieburdett]

And the same goes for me. If i see any i'll send it to Paul hehe.

[bookitten]

does that meen that they could be in the tigers anjie got from brixton? GARY! AHHHH! *runs away screaming with her arms in the air*


sophie
PS -- well, does it???

[Kevin]

bookitten said:

does that meen that they could be in the tigers anjie got from brixton? GARY! AHHHH! *runs away screaming with her arms in the air*


sophie
PS -- well, does it???

maybe
hopefully it was just a one-off with my snail though, My snail hasnt woken up yet, I'll see how active he is later, and keep a very close eye on him...Can I suggest though, that everyone who was sent any of the Brixton snails keep a close check on their snails, the parasite was found in the snails dung

[anjieburdett]

AND keep them seperate from your other snails !!! Its good practice to quaranteen new snails when you dont know their background.

[Kevin]

anjieburdett said:

AND keep them seperate from your other snails !!! Its good practice to quaranteen new snails when you dont know their background.

I didnt think of that...So I'll have to keep him seperate from the other margies im getting from you? For how long would be best?...This changes my housing plans slightly, I can easilly work around it though, just means I need at least one more tank

[anjieburdett]

If you can't keep him seperate then just keep a close eye on him....no one is saying that ALL of these snails have parasites.....i haven't noticed any in the many i still have here, but you never know and its best to be safe than sorry.

Just check his poo everytime he does one! ewww hehe

[anjieburdett]

Just think of how much poo i have to wade through lol. And still no sign of creepy crawleys yet!

[eric2]

As i posted on cybersnail i think i found a one in my Margie's poo. I just quarantined hi today reading Angie's email. It is not like the one described in previous posts, it is long And thin i have it in a Tupperware container at the moment. i got a pic on my phone but it is not very good. Does anybody know how to add pics?

Eric R
p.s. i think it is dead because i picked it up with tweezers

[anjieburdett]

Paul, what do you think??? What should Eric do with this 'thingy'??

Anjie,x.

[Paul]

Ok, I've spent the last few hours reading up about various parasitic worms. Here's the photo I was sent:



Basically, we need some more information. Eric described it as "was a long stringy white thing. It is no thicker than a piece of thread.".

To determine what it is, we need more info:

1. How long is it?
2. How wide is it?
3. Is it flat or round?
4. Does it have a segmented body?
5. Does the body taper at each end?
6. Is it translucent or opaque and what can be seen when you apply light?
7. Are there any other visible features.

This may sound condenscending but I don't mean to be, the photo could be anything .

Could it be some faeces? When you look at snail faeces, it is often not just one length of continuous colour or consistency. You sometimes get stringy or blobby bits of varying colours. It depends of what they've eaten. Could it be this?

Also, it looks to me, like it could be the stringy congealed mucus you get on big snails. With them being wild caught, I imagine there is quite a bit. Even with Anjie cleaning them, there will still be quite a bit. Perhaps it is this. Lets rule this out first because when I first saw this I was alarmed. This congealed slime, is transclucent white/grey, sticky, stringy and stretchy and in threads. I would best describe it as the stringy bits of fat that hold bacon together (not the rind).

If it isn't either of those, then it is most likely a type of parasitic worm. There are 2 main types, tapeworms and roundworms (inc. pinworms and hookworms). Both can be large enough to see easily.

I would suggest you look on google images for worms of these types that look similar. And we need a better photograph to make the search easier.

I don't really know all the implications of either but it seems to me that it is better out than in. In the info I read on both types of worm, it is usually eggs that are deposited in faeces not the worms themselves, unless they are dead. It is possible that the snail ate some tapeworm infected faeces and contracted one, that couldn't surive internally and died. But in that case, how did it grow to the size it did?

So far, all of the roundworm pictures I've seen are not white. Tapeworms on the other hand are whitish in color, flat, and ribbon-like, with a covering that is a transparent skin-like layer.

To decide which type it is we need to know if it has got a segmented body. These segments can be large:



or small:



Hopefully, if the culprit is a parasite then it is a tapeworm, as they pose the least risk to us.

Both types of worm persist and have various lifespans so it is impossible to predict if quarantining them would work. Is there a treatment? Well there just might be. Both types of worms are treated by anthelmintics and it just so happens that a few herbs are thought to have these properties:

Chamomile (Matricaria recutita)
Agnus castus
St. John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum)
Feverfew (Tanacetum parthenium)
Garlic

"Intestinal Parasites: Laboratory studies suggest that large quantities of fresh, raw garlic may have antiparasitic properties against the roundworm, Ascaris lumbricoides, which is the most common type of intestinal parasite. Garlic for this purpose, however, has not yet been tested in people."

Lastly, I advise major caution for everyone who gets wild snails. Firstly, you must be very careful of touching things in the tank, especially the soil. Wash your hands thoroughly. If you are worried, read up about both types, coz they can both be treated.

I put my new tigers in with my margies and sole tiger immediately because until I get my new tank, I don't have the space. Which is unfortunate now they've mixed. I've been examing the stools but it is not the best method it seems, they are rarely passed out that way.

It's not all bad news because we still know so little. If it is a type that requires mammals to complete the lifecycle then quarantining will work and it is likely the snails will be fine and the risk to us gone. These are generally types that infect snails through ingestion and then we eat an infected snail. This can be the case in both tapeworms and roundworms. Considering how many snails are wild-caught I don't think we have much to worry about. I haven't read of a single case of a European snail owner getting an infection. You've more to fear from parasites of cats and dogs. Except as mammals, they can be treated.

In the case of a snail that is really suffering from what you think are worms of some sort, and I mean dying (malnutrition etc), I think it would be worth trying one of the many deworming formulas/tablets you can get. There's no way to know if a snail will survive the tablets but maybe it is worth a go. It can't be any worse than starving to death and if it worked, they'd be passed out in the stools and we'd know if it worked and how to treat suspected cases.

paul

[Paul]

Pandatazz, have you found any pictures that are similar to your find?

www.geocities.com/brisbane_flies/Calliphoridae.htm
www.agric.nsw.gov.au/reader/sheep-external/dai152.htm

These links mention blowfly and blowfly larvae. Apparently one is known to be a snail parasite, so it doesn't just eat rotting carcasses. And they can look a little hairy. It's a possibility, white, small and grub-like.

I'm not sure if this yours but it is interesting because it is probably some type of blowfly that causes the maggots in snail tanks we hear about in horror petshops and rescued snails.

[eric2]

Would the parasite be passed out if the snail wasnt eating? I know if dogs have worms if they dont eat the worm comes out in their poo. I will check wat you were saying tonight paul

eric

[eric2]

I have found a liive one It is smal and has a black line going down its body like the pictue somewhere on these posts it is only about 5mm long. I found it in my large tank without the brixton margie. My brixton margie was in that tank yesterday tough, could it of came from that?

eric
OMG it looks like th rat parasite
Should I go to the doctors to get cheked out?

[Kevin]

Maybe mine was some sort of blow-fly larvae...It certainly seemed grublike, like a fly larvae...I have cleaned the contents of his housing a few times since finding it though and havent found anything else, the snail is getting more active now as well, he has been slowly moving around his housing this morning, the first time he's been active in the day time since I got him

[anjieburdett]

OK Eric, you're scaring me now!! Please wash your hands after touching your snails!!

And people were buying these snails to EAT them....ARGHHHHH.

[anjieburdett]

Keep hold of that 'thing' Eric. I have posted a message for Morgan on cybersnail...she has a friend who works with identifying insects and stuff and he's helped us out with pesky flies before.....maybe he can identify this for us.

Fingers crossed!!

[Paul]

It is possible is is the rat-lung worm but there are pictures of other worms with black lines through them. It's not the worst news if this is the case, because good hygiene will break the worms reproductive cycle. Eventually the worms will stop being infectious. How long that is, I don't know. See the thread in pests & disease.

[bookitten]

Your scaring me loads now... im afraid of my snails
is sneezing a sympton? because i just a sneezing fit then, lol. couldnt stop sneezing!

eric2 said:

I have found a liive one It is smal and has a black line going down its body like the pictue somewhere on these posts it is only about 5mm long. I found it in my large tank without the brixton margie. My brixton margie was in that tank yesterday tough, could it of came from that?

eric
OMG it looks like th rat parasite
Should I go to the doctors to get cheked out?