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Post by Paul on Sept 25, 2006 23:36:05 GMT
If anyone has any clear pictures of different snail species mating, please could you post them here. I've tried searching but there are so many pictures it's almost impossible to find them.
I'm looking for species mixing rather than subspecies mixing.
Thanks!
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 26, 2006 9:10:24 GMT
i'm sure there was someoe who had a pic of a Helix pomatia, and something like a chocolate whirl snail mating, i'll try and find it...
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 26, 2006 9:14:44 GMT
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Post by Robert Nordsieck on Sept 26, 2006 16:20:38 GMT
They may be mating, but they won't be breeding: That was a Helix pomatia and a Helix lucorum mating (which may happen due to their similarity in sexual attractants, see Roman snails' reproduction). In principle it is only possible to crossbreed between different subspecies, not species. Regards Robert
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Post by Paul on Sept 26, 2006 17:43:30 GMT
That's what's what I thought, but I'd heard many conflicting opinions about that. So, whilst writing a breeding guide I came across the following: www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1095-8649.1987.tb05750.xwhich says: "Adult roach, bream and their presumed F1 hybrid from an Anglian Water reservoir were identified on the basis of morphological and meristic characteristics. The hybrid was clearly intermediate. Four hybrid breeding crosses were induced to spawn by hypophysis. A bream x roach cross (female named first) failed to produce fertile eggs, whereas F1 hybrid x roach, roach x F1 hybrid and F1 hybrid x F1 hybrid all produced fry. Fertility (defined as survival of eggs to hatching) was high for the F1 hybrid x roach back-cross (56%) but low for the others (<2%), in comparison to the pure species controls (roach 69%, bream 76%). Progeny from these crosses were reared until anal fin rays could be counted. These counts indicated intermediacy between the parents and back-crossed individuals, and similarity between F1 hybrids and their F2 progenyNow, this is based on fish breeding but it seemed to me that if species (Roach and Bream are entirely different genus and species) can in fact crossbreed and produce hybrids that are fertile when backcrossed with one of their parents true species or bred with another F1, then surely this logic is applied to defining snails just as equally. I don't mean in a physical sense, but rather a scientific distinction of what a species is.
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Post by Paul on Sept 26, 2006 17:53:53 GMT
I'm also thinking that the reason we don't see it in snails often is because snails aren't anywhere near as likely to crossbreed due to the delivery method of sperm being totally different and requiring: 1. Partner selection rather than eggs and sperm coming into contact naturally (in the water) like fish 2. Sperm selection. I've heard that snails can actually select sperm to fertilise the eggs, again unlike fish which is only partly voluntary.
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Post by copigeon on Sept 26, 2006 18:03:10 GMT
You do see it in aquatic snails, Im sure Ive read a report of spixi and columbian rams having repoduced, and the eggs having hatched into mish mash crossbreeds showing traits of both.
Ive witnessed canas, bridgessi, columbian rams and spixis mating, but have never collected eggs.
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Post by Robert Nordsieck on Sept 27, 2006 5:41:09 GMT
Hi there,
it is said, even new species can come to existence by bastardization of two snail species, for example among door snails (Clausiliidae).
It looks like the term of the species cannot be as clearly determined as by mere mating isolation... This makes it, though, very hard to determine, where one species begins and another ends...
Regards Robert
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Post by Paul on Sept 28, 2006 0:50:43 GMT
This makes it, though, very hard to determine, where one species begins and another ends... it certainly looks that way doesn't it I think things will improve in this regard eventually as we come to realise how dubious it all is. I'm sure WC snails will be much more highly documented throughout successive generations so in the future, it becomes slightly less confusing. I hopeso anyway!
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Kevin
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Post by Kevin on Sept 28, 2006 11:08:39 GMT
Does anyone actually keep any confirmed African snails that are a cross between 2 different species? or have ever witnessed 2 different species mating? I remember I posted pictures ages ago that alleged to be rodatzi x smithii (now would be immaculata) they could just have been the striped form of hamillei from fulica hamillei rodatzi parents though.
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Post by Paul on Sept 28, 2006 11:36:17 GMT
I have a picture of a fulica and an iredalei mating.
The problem is that if snails can select sperm, they are unlikely to select less compatible sperm.
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Acha-Roby
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Post by Acha-Roby on Sept 23, 2009 11:52:40 GMT
i probably have a cross between fulica and reticulata... i post the pics as soon as possible for you to see the snails, so you can confirm the species (sorry for the english )
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Sept 23, 2009 22:06:25 GMT
Darn it, I should have taken a pic of my Otala lactea and Theba pisana mating.
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malti
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Post by malti on Sept 23, 2009 22:26:55 GMT
Darn it, I should have taken a pic of my Otala lactea and Theba pisana mating. did they produce young?
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Acha-Roby
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Post by Acha-Roby on Sept 24, 2009 8:24:11 GMT
i don't think they can riproduce because they are in 2 different genus (Otala e Theba).
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malti
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Post by malti on Sept 24, 2009 9:10:27 GMT
i don't think they can riproduce because they are in 2 different genus (Otala e Theba). I was gonna comment about mules(donkey x Horse) and zorses/hebras(zebra x horse), but just remebered they're from the same family (Equus). but then birds... Carduelis chloris (Greenfinch) X Canis (Canary), give what we call a mule bird, which about 85% is infertile. and in fish Poecilia gilli (Mollies) X Xiphophorus Helleri (swordtails) produce fertile young... so its confusing as not all animals adhere to it, get what I mean?
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Acha-Roby
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Post by Acha-Roby on Sept 24, 2009 9:37:35 GMT
yep, i understand but this case are very very very rare and there are very low possibility in this case... but it not impossible
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malti
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Post by malti on Sept 24, 2009 10:34:22 GMT
yep, i understand but this case are very very very rare and there are very low possibility in this case... but it not impossible I'm gonna try Fulica X Immacs...just need them to grow
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Acha-Roby
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Post by Acha-Roby on Sept 24, 2009 17:39:43 GMT
good
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Sept 24, 2009 18:49:45 GMT
The clutch hatched, with about 3 dozen snailets crawling about their nursery tank as I type.
I have always had some nagging doubts about whether Latif, my Theba, was indeed a bona-fide Theba. That species has not been known to be in my area (he was WC locally), but that does not mean it isn't here anyway.
Whatever he is, it is something that can reproduce with an Otala. The juveniles all have an umbilicus. Latif had one when I got him but it disappeared as his shell grew. I have not been able to find out if juvenile Otalas have a visible umbilicus (adults do not).
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malti
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Post by malti on Sept 24, 2009 19:15:42 GMT
could you post pics of the parents and the babies coyote?
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Sept 25, 2009 20:04:03 GMT
Paola (Otala) Attachments:
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Sept 25, 2009 20:04:40 GMT
Another view. Attachments:
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Sept 25, 2009 20:09:12 GMT
Latif. Attachments:
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Sept 25, 2009 20:10:56 GMT
Latif had a visible umbilicus when I got him, but I never got a pic of it. The shell has grown to cover it up now. Attachments:
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