just a concern

[LisaLQ]

I dont want to start a bicker or board war, but I've got a bit of a concern about the reaction to a thread on the reviews board.

I dont know what happened on it to get it removed, but I do worry that the reaction to it - and the subsequent mods postings - do look a bit OTT.

If we're going to give sellers support, then surely we should be offering the same kind of support to those who dont agree with it.

Before anyone says "You're only saying that because you disagree", it's not true. Thanks to the valuable insights from many sellers on here, my views have changed somewhat since my early ranting days (cringe, blush etc etc).

But there seem to have been a few threads locked/deleted/modified by mods recently, where it is seeming to get rather one sided. If anyone so much as mentions not agreeing with pet sales, their posts are condemned and/or locked/deleted.

Cant we all just act like adults - all of us - on both sides of the argument? Can those who do/dont agree with something be allowed to say that without the wrath of the mods coming down on them?

Now forgive me if I'm totally off track here - swearing and insults are not what I'm on about - of course the mods acted properly if that was happening. But the addition of a thread about the one which was deleted, which is basically just as (no offense Em honestly truly) argumentative, is that really showing the best way to behave?

Why not lock or delete if offensive, and leave it? Why the need for the last word, or a good telling off - just because of the mods differing views?

Again, I'm really sorry for offending - and I really dont mean to pick on one person here, as I dont know what happened - it's just sad that it has to come to folks being told what they can and cant believe in - is it really the friendly forum it used to be?

[Paul]

I don't think it is anything to do with what you can and can't believe. It's the fact that we go round and round and round with the same thing and it's totally unconstructive.

If you disagree with pet sales that's fine, but why does everyone only choose to offer this information when somebody is the target? It is rarely generalised and in the last thread to be moved, it seemed to me that no-one really knew who they were aiming comments at. Why not start a thread to discuss this, and be done with it once and for all? I personally don't care what people believe in, that's your business not mine. And that courtesy should be extended to people who haven't actually done anything wrong. It's about fairness. If someone came on with a thread about you, and the comments started to descend into people bickering over your valid personal choices, like complaining that you won't sell them a snail for them to sell on, I'd treat it the same because everyone does have a right to do as they wish. Moreover, comments about price are one thing but everyone has a right to sell what they wish at any price they wish. By all means, say "a bit pricey you can get them cheaper here" but it seems like it's more insiduous than that.

As far as I am concerned the only legitimate complaint that could be aimed at an individual in this area is when they are lied to about where their snails are gonna end up. That is worth posting. Adding derisory comments about someone's personal choice is not needed and noone else's business.

I think copigeon's comments were totally valid. We could start a thread about every person on the forum, and we can all post things we don't like about them, their posts or their beliefs. When you think of it in that context, it's obvious that it would be massively abused and totally useless. So why would we prolong it on a individual basis, which is worse in many ways because someone is being singled out?

The thread was left in tact while it was salient and was only removed after it degenerated, quite a while after in fact. I wish people would be less condemning but I don't have a right to censor opinions. I do however, reserve the right to stop things going too far or stop yet more duplication of non-constructive argument, particularly when they're aimed at an individual and after reviewing the thread I support the decision that was taken.

As for the subsequent posts, other than the fact that we'd get loads of posts asking where it had gone, it was a plea for sanity.

[goose]

I wasn't involved or aware of what went on in the deleted thread. I agree that this forum should remain a place where no one needs fear personal attacks for their beliefs and that it remains a civil and constructive and informative forum to visit.

I have to agree with Lisa that the subsequent post by the mods was a little heavy handed. If the thread needed locking that’s fine but the rules on behaviour are posted all over the forum and I don't think the sermon was entirely necessary. My personal opinion and not intended to offend.

[Paul]

I can see where you are coming from. It's just that from our point of view, we're sick to death of reiteration and I think that was reflected, perhaps a little too strongly, in the response.

[LisaLQ]

Oh I can completely understand that, I should have thought of that before I posted. I think I probably shouldn't have posted as it wasn't really as much a rant as a worry that folks might see PS as getting a bit scary now and again. If you get me?

I'm used to the (comedy) wrath of Em ;D

[copigeon]

Hey lisa,

Its fine And I do know my posts were preachy, but there was good reason.

When I logged in the recent post history was a list of insults bickering and nastiness. There was no one target, no aim, no particular point of upset. Just random posts where the poster hadnt read the thread properly but still saw fit to throw thier two pence in and have a go at... whoever seemed to be at fault to them.

The seller in question hadnt responded in a useful fashion, a few completely uninvolved bystanders decided to chip in with threats, and it had completely lost all usefulness.

Had the thread been clean, had some useful information in it, or been a valid argument. I would have left it.
As it stood, foul language, misunderstanding and nonsense which had nothing to do with what was being sold or the transaction. Nothing to do with opinion at all, just rubbish.
Hence the preaching. There is no excuse to swear/call each other names/throw threats at one another.
For me that deserved a decent explaination.

[LisaLQ]

Completely agree with you after reading what happened. Folks, ignore my previous mini-rant, these mods have more patience than I ever could.

[Val]

I wonder if I could add to this thread a little concern of my own, well a big concern really that the forum is losing it's fun aspect and I feel that is because we are being 'moulded' too much in the way we are allowed to involve ourselves here, the whole forum is becoming too 'limiting', posts are deleted simply because they are in the wrong place, or that they do not 'add' anything to the thread there is no spontaneous posting anymore everything has to be done in a certain way or it is deleted or the thread is locked!! Everyone here is an individual and that is the whole essence of what makes it so interesting, if we are curbed all the time in what we say and do it becomes boring. I find snail keeping a lot of FUN but feel that the fun aspect is being replaced by a sort of 'code of behaviour' I also think that moving the classifieds off the forum was a big mistake, again it destroyed the fun part of displaying pictures of the snails up for sale, it was also a great deal easier to see who it was who was selling the snails instead of keep clicking on a forum link.
These are just my random thoughts but I know that I do not look forward to logging on here like I used to and I also notice that the amount of people here in the evening is getting less and less!

Val

[Buse]

I Totally Agree With Val About The Classfieds I Personally Think It Should've Stayed Though I Dont Mean To Offend Anyone Or Anything Just Saying ;D , Ohh And Also I Always Used To Go Home After School Take Tango Or Which Ever Snails Out Let It Slime My Hand Up Whie I Try To Log On To The Computer And Go Onto The Petsnails Forum ( No Lie ) And There Used To Be LOADS Of Peepz On Here I Would See Maybe 7 - 13 Every Night At About I Dunno Say 6 - 9 ( Pm ) But Now It Does Seem To Be Less Now Its More Like I Dunno 5 - About 11 Maybe Well Something Like That Just Thought I Would Share My Opinions And Views ;D lol But Anyway Thanks For Reading Sorry If Sounded A Bit I Dunno Rude Or Stuck Up Or Whatever

Thanks For Reading
From Me !

[felix93]

Ditto to Val. I have joined PS for more than a year now but there are so much change within a year, not saying it's not good, but I think you have to really think of why most of the regulars do not even bother about logging on anymore or have left the board. I don't think it's just because of some sort of disagreement between members. A chat board is still a chat board, I found we have quite a lot of limit on PS, just like it's because we have a classified forum, we cannot put "want" in the sig, fair enough but I don't think it's really a big deal. So instead, another thread was being put up to say we have to behave and not act like children and have to listen and do what we're told. Don't forget some of the members are not adults, they are teens. They are just doing what teens do. And for some desperate newbies, they just want to know the answers when stuck, but in return, they're told they have to do a search for information first. It's like if we do not talk about snails, then we cannot post. I am also the only not looking forward to logging onto the board like I used to.

[copigeon]

Classifieds, you have to understand why the change was made.
Old classifieds were repeatedly ressurected. Its alot of work to delete/lock every old classified, yet year old threads were being brought back to life by new members?
How else do you prevent that from happening other than taking it off the forum.

I dont understand the complaint about posts which dont add anything being deleted? Thats only on the info and research sections of the forum?
This is just to retain the integrity of the information.
Theres a mass of sections which dont have this restriction? Why is that a concern?

Felix, if you had read the thread which I moved, you would agree with what I said.
People were acting without any forethought to thier posts, which was alienating new members, causing upset needlessly. Im sorry but just removing that without any explaination doesnt prevent it next time.
I understand we have younger members, I personally expect everyone to act with civility and understanding regardless of age. Being 12 does not give you the right to act in a manner offensive to other people?
No one here has the right to tell another member they do not "fit in" or do not "belong".

The difficulty is gaining a balance. You either end up with pages of drivel, putting off anyone who doesnt enjoy trying to sift through post after post of "oh wow!" "can my snails eat lettuce?", or whats being attempted which is keeping it in the right areas, and asking if at least an attempt to be made at searching for the information first.
Why is that so unreasonable?
Allows those of us who dont come here for the chat to get at the information. And those who want to chat to do so in a whole chunk of the forum.
And makes it easier to glean information from the forum to be used on the petsnails website.

Its difficult to make everyone happy.

[copigeon]

On that point: Because its been alot of work to try and make the forum more accessible to everyone. And its damn hard sifting through pms of complaints because joe said this to bethany, and someone pmed me and I dont like it, and someone called me a moose.
And someones posted a smilie in every thread they came across, for no apparent reason. Someone else has ressurrected a 18month old classified thread and the original postee is complaining because theyve had 30 people email them to ask for snails they dont have.

I know alot of you who are grumbling now were the first to complain when they were receiving unwanted pms. Im sure alot of our newer members would prefer that they could pm whoever they want about snails without the threat of a temp ban.
Just like some want the classifieds back, yet will be complaining when people start pming them about snails which were been and gone months back.
And some will want the "post anything anywhere and be damned to trying to keep some interesting new research information handy" and will be misserable when anyone who has more than a pet interest in these animals disapears because thier threads got choaked to death with "aww! pretty!".

It'll annoy some if we do it, it'll annoy others if we dont.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

[LisaLQ]

*passes out mince pies in hope of cheering everyone up....or battenburg, whichever's your favourite*

I feel awful for starting this thread now. Tis Chrimble, and I made folks upset.

[KathyM]

I saw the modly posts regarding that thread yesterday and I've got to admit, my first thought was "Holy Hell, that's a bit harsh!", mainly because the last I read of that thread was a bit of joking around with no offence made to anyone. Then it sunk in that Em wasn't responding to the silliness (cos she's just as mad really)and that the proverbial must've hit the fan after I last read. At which point it became more understandable.

Putting that aside, I really like the Classifieds now. We have the feedback bit to check out sellers/buyers. My main conern would be that we might not be able to use the feedback bit openly, and that if we did (fairly and openly, not bitchily) that it would make more work for the mods if people disagreed. By that I'm not taking about "X sells on eBay so he's evil!!!!", or hearsay, or anything like that, I'm meaning the genuine experienes kind of stuff.

I'm not making enough sense, so I'm going to back slowly out of the room......now. <Legs it>

[Buse]

Lol , I Guess That The Classfieds Section Thing Is In A Way Better Now Its More Tidy And Everything Though I Dunno How To Explain It Realy But I Just Found It Easier Before Though Have To Admit That It Is ALOT More Tidy Now , But I Agree With Felix93 About The Whole Newbies Part When They Have To Search Before They Can Post A Question , But Yeh Sorry If It Dosent Make Proper Scence .

Thanks For Reaing
From Me Again ;D

[LisaLQ]

Maybe a commonly asked questions thread, or a beginners board, would be a good idea? Mind you, we have the "new to snails" thread...

[deadmansfinger]

thats a decent idea Lisa but to be honest newbies will join here and just ask the question they came to ask anyway. I say this as they dont read the rules etc just now so I don't see why this would be any different. There is a whole care section on the website but people still ask questions on the forum that can be answered there if they would only do a bit of research beforehand but generally people just want the answer handed to them rather than putting any effort into it.

I read Val's comment about spontaneous posting but to be honest alot of stuff people put up without thinking is complete drivel and was generally irrelevant and we (mods) then need to tidy it up to keep the threads on track. If we didn't the whole forum would be a complete mess and it would make searching for any information near impossible. I have to say since we started being a bit more strict with the forum there are far less posts of "lol" or "ooooooo" which to be honest was a pain in the ass to keep on top of the job of deleting them all. There are so many members on here now that there has to be rules so that the board doesn't decend into chaos and if that happens to upset a few people then so be it but I feel this is definately one of the better forums I use.

Also after all the warnings etc about not asking for snails via the main forum I log on this morning and find someone has done this so it just goes to show that people don't read the rules so we need to have the threat of bans to get people to stop doing it. I get so many pm's from people complaining about aspects on the board (like other members pming asking for snails) but then these same people start complaining when we introduce ways in which to curb this.

Brian.

[sezzy5889]

I have only just seen this thread due to i do not visit this site as much as i used to...
But i am going to have to say i agree with areas of Lisa's, Val's and Felix's posts, I too feel the Fun aspect of this forum has just been torn off and disposed of, everything we post now has to have some sort of useful information included or else it is classed as an irrelevent post.

I do however agree that foul language, over-opinionative posts and threats should not be allowed as they shouldn't be on any forum in my mind. Also these one word/smiley posts are a bit useless except maybe in the picture section where 'awwwwwwwwwww' is exceptable.
But even posts that aren't relevent but still read something like 'oh i totally agree, and that snail is soo cute btw' may not have anything to do with the thread at hand but is simply just someone being polite, so many quarrels break out simply because someone has been misunderstood, too afraid to post a messege like that so assumed to be ungratefulness or ignorance.

I too feel annoyed when i see some mod has had the last word in a thread and then locked, in some cases it needs to be locked, but the mod does not need to give everyone a telling off like we are some sort of school kids.

I joined this site about 18 months ago, there was approx 74 members and it was a real fun, interesting, happy place to be, everyone was polite and even though there was fun and jokes dotted around the threads, people till gave the information they were asked of.
As time went by we had trolls posting and kids under the age limit joining, and basically being kids, getting into moods and really pushing people too far. Some kids are generally interested and want to learn i know, but if they are then they will put on a mature front when on the forum.
I have seen soo many people come and go from this forum, some very nice people too who don't deserve to be driven away.

Also i think the bullying and threats have to stop! i know some people don't get along, there are people i haven't got along with in the past and also people who don't think much of me, now thats fine, but to then bring it on to the forum is just wrong, his is not a place to come and say 'he stole my lollipop, whos on my side?' because we don't want to know, we are here to talk snails, we'll help you out with a personal problem, but were not here to form gangs and bully people. Like i said there are people i haven't particularly got along with in the past, but if they have a problem or a question, i'm going to answer with as best answer as i have because thats what i'm here for to help and get help, at the end of the day i may not chat to them on msn, or i may not want to sell to them, but i'm not going to sit back and say 'i'm not answering you because i don't like you' because that is not how i would want to be treated should i have a problem!

And about the classifieds, i think it was slightly ruined by doing what has been done, i can no longer log in and take a quick glance at the dot to see if it is glowing or whether no one else has posted, i like to see pictures of the snails i'm interested in.

I do however think the posts got a little out of hand when it came to albino snails and tigers etc... and in my opinion if my forum became out of hand like that i would delete all wanted posts all together, i don't really see a proper reason to post what you want, if people have something to sell or trade, if they wanted to rid of it that much they will put up a for sale/trade post and then first come first served etc...

I do not wish to attempt to put a classifieds add on here anymore, because to be honest i can't be bothered, i'd rather go over to BugNation and do the more easy, quick way of posting a simple messege up to say what i have for sale/trade/auction.

and just to make my post clear, i am not directing this at anyone, i'm not dissagreeing with anyone, i do not wish to start an arguement, this is just my opinion, what i wish to get off my chest, no reason to start throwing ridiculous comments at me because to tell the truth i just laugh right back at them.

[sezzy5889]

Ps. I don't now what went on before hand, i never saw the thread...

[Buse]

I Agree With Shady , ( Sorry If This Post Is Unrevallent Or Whatever ) I Just Feel As Though All The Fun Has Just Gone Just Flew Away I No I Havent Been A Member on Here For Ages Like You Guys But I Do Still Remeber When We Use To Just Laugh And Joke And I Do Feel That The Classiefieds Is Neater And Everything But I Mean You Cant See Pics Other Then Emailing Them To Each Other And I Cant Login And Just Look At The Classfieds Posts I Have To Go Onto Petsnails Main Website And Go To Classfieds And Then Click On Petsnails Classifeids ( Or Somit Like That ) I Dunno I Just Think That It Is Just So Formal Now Theres Just , Just No Fun . So Yeh I Guess I Feel That Now It Is Strict And Very Very Formal And Just Like No Fun Well Yeh We Still Joke And Mess Around But Not Like We Use To But Anyway I Feel Just Right Now That I Cant Realy Post Here Cos Your All ( Not Pointed At Anyone Just How I Feel ) Like Gonna Bite My Head Off Or Something ( Sorry If Thats Rude Or Wateva ) I Dunno I Just Feel That Theres No Fun Left In Petsnails ( Once Again Sorry If Thats Rude ) Sorry If That Made No Scence
Wat-So -Eva But I Do Try ( To Make Scence )

[deadmansfinger]

like I said before we have so many members now if we didn't have rules the forum would be a complete mess as folk post all over the place, in the wrong sections and make totally inappropriate comments that we need to delete, move or edit each day so we need rules to try and keep the forum in order.

they are not meant to put people off and to be honest the figures show that this isn't the case. just because a few of you don't like the changes and say you don't come on here as much we have more people visiting the site than ever before (that came from Paul so is accurate)

I hope you will all continue to use and enjoy the forum but to be honest no matter what we do we cannot please everyone.


Brian.

[Buse]

Sorry But I Didnt Mean It Like That I Dunno I Mean I Didnt Say Yeh Lets Have No Rules Or Anything I Just Meant That I Feel As If I Dunno But Say That I Post Something In The General Disscussion Bit And Lets Say That Its Something That Someone Has Already Posted And Then I Am Told Of Like Someone Puts ' Please Use The Search Engine As e Have Had To Say This MANY Times Before ( Then They Post A Link Of The Other Thread ) ' Not Pointing Fingers Or Anything I Mean No Dont Say That Cos Seriously Thats Not What Im Trying To Do But Like ' but to be honest no matter what we do we cannot please everyone. ' I Never Or Realy Anyone Who As Posted Here Has Said That You Have To Please Everyone ( Not You As In You You You I Mean Everyone In General I Think ) .' because a few of you don't like the changes and say you don't come on here as much we have more people visiting the site than ever before ' Sorry But I DInt Realise That It Was All To Do With How Many People Visit The Site Or Wateva I Mean If I New Thats What It Was About Then I Guess I Would Off Never Posted I Thought That It Was A Kwl Forum Where People Could Chat Post Pics Of The Snails And Have There Questions Answered About Snail Probs And A Load Of Other Stuff .

But Please Everyone Dont Take That The Wronge Way I Dont Wanna Start A Argumaent Or Anything So Please Do Not Have A Go At Me Or Ban Me Or Hate Me Or I Dunno Just Please Dont Take It The Wronge Way I Guess

[deadmansfinger]

I find it very difficult to read your writing style so perhaps you could post without all the capitals. this is just a personal opinion and I am not speaking as "a mod" I am speaking as someone who finds it difficult to read writing like that and this is not a personal attack.

we never ban anyone for voicing an opinion. at the moment we have only banned 2 accounts and they were made by the same person so 1 out of 491 members doesn't really show us as being too stict.

your first point about using the search function isn't valid. there is no point 10 people asking the same question when the answer is already there. it just makes sense to do a search for your question before you post so that there is not numerous threads with the same topic and I welcome people pointing others to threads that answer the question they are asking.


with regards to your other comment it's not a popularity contest on here but I meant with all the members nothing we do will please everyone so inevitably some people are going to go elsewhere or not come on here as much but we can't be doing anything that bad as we have more members and visitors then ever before so the numbers speak for themselves.

Brian.

[Buse]

Sorry I Am Addicted To It I Did Warn You All That In Intro But I Guess I Could Have 2 New Year Resolutions Yeh Sorry Everyone Who Cant Read My Writing Blame My Conditoion - Addicted To The Shift Button But I Will TRY And Stop Starting Now ! ;D

' we never ban anyone for voicing an opinion. at the moment we have only banned 2 accounts and they were made by the same person so 1 out of 491 members doesn't really show us as being too stict. ' - I didnt say that thats why i think your ( you lot / everyone ) strict so i seriuosly didnt mean it like that . sorry

'your first point about using the search function isn't valid. there is no point 10 people asking the same question when the answer is already there. it just makes sense to do a search for your question before you post so that there is not numerous threads with the same topic and I welcome people pointing others to threads that answer the question they are asking. ' - I didnt say that it wasnt valid I just wanted to say that it i dunno like ooo i giv up im makin no scense anyway

So im not even gonna try to giv a point about your last comment as it is kinda useless ( of me that is ) so i guess sorry and i didnt mean what i said in a horrible way or anything i was just giving my opinion i guess

[deadmansfinger]

no harm done everyone is entitled to their opinion


Brian