birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 8, 2009 19:17:08 GMT
hey everyone! do you have info on this species? Someone keep/kept it?
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Oct 8, 2009 19:43:54 GMT
There is very little info about this species on the forum, so I hope someone who's had this snail will chime in and discuss their experiences.
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 8, 2009 19:56:02 GMT
There is very little info about this species on the forum, so I hope someone who's had this snail will chime in and discuss their experiences. let's hope so they seem interesting!
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Post by infiltraitor on Oct 12, 2009 18:46:56 GMT
As these snails consume other snails, what would you feed it if you did try keeping one? From what I've read the young, upon hatching will set out trying to find another snail to eat and sometimes consume their own siblings. Yuk!
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 13, 2009 18:06:12 GMT
As these snails consume other snails, what would you feed it if you did try keeping one? From what I've read the young, upon hatching will set out trying to find another snail to eat and sometimes consume their own siblings. Yuk! I find it a more natural way to take care of unwanted babies from my 5 fulica. There is still the freezing eggs possibilty that's why i'm not sure about taking some rosy wolfsnails but it would be a good way to recreate the natural selection. Euglandina rosea are able to follow the other snails slime trace so no snail can run away so it is not like putting a lion in a cage with a zebra. No snails that live in the same territory as a rosie wolf snail can escape, that's also why some species were wiped out from them.
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Oct 13, 2009 18:58:02 GMT
And that's why they were brought into areas with non-native infestations -- to wipe them out.
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 13, 2009 19:36:12 GMT
And that's why they were brought into areas with non-native infestations -- to wipe them out. well A. fulica can be quite destructive species...unfortunately they didn't count that there were other snails in the area kinda stupid.
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Post by infiltraitor on Oct 13, 2009 19:36:43 GMT
And that's why they were brought into areas with non-native infestations -- to wipe them out. Which, from what I read, is resulting in the unwanted eradication of certain native species of tree snails, and not effectively controlling the non-native GALS.
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Oct 13, 2009 19:45:28 GMT
E. rosea has been used to combat smaller species, such as aspersas. And yes, they will go after native species as well, because they don't know or care what's native or non-native. They just want something to eat.
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 13, 2009 19:52:09 GMT
that's what happened. They introduced them to reduce the number of fulica and now they have a atomic bombs in their hands. A snail that is able to wipe out entire species.
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Post by infiltraitor on Oct 13, 2009 19:52:59 GMT
I find it a more natural way to take care of unwanted babies from my 5 fulica. [snip] ...but it would be a good way to recreate the natural selection. So you advocate allowing easily frozen eggs to hatch, just to feed the young to a predatory snail that doesn't share the same continent as that prey species, other than by human intervention. The way I see it, that is not natural selection.
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 13, 2009 19:57:37 GMT
So you advocate allowing easily frozen eggs to hatch, just to feed the young to a predatory snail that doesn't share the same continent as that prey species, other than by human intervention. The way I see it, that is not natural selection. but it is freezing eggs according to you?choosing who has to live and who has to die? that's my dilemma. I can freeze eggs so why introducing a predator? i'm scared of what it is going to happen if i miss some eggs. That's why i'm collecting information. It is a pure snail predator, i find it perfect in some ways but as i said, i'm not sure. I don't understand anyway this hate towards that snail. It is a snail as all the others. It is amazing how they haunt. There is people keeping hamsters and snakes, i don't see the difference.
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Post by infiltraitor on Oct 13, 2009 20:35:33 GMT
I didn't mention that it was natural selection when it comes to freezing eggs.
I'd suggest that if freezing is the universally accepted method of preventing unwanted offspring, then by keeping two or more snails together that in all probability will breed then that's what we all have a moral obligation to do, else accept or rehome the result.
Assuming you're still going to freeze unwanted eggs, what would you feed to the rosea then? Will you decide to not freeze some eggs in order to provide food for it, or perhaps take on more breeding pairs just to sustain it!?
I think what most people find so reprehensible about this snail is the way consumes larger snails. That it circumvents it's prey's natural defence mechanism; that of retracting into it's shell for protection by chasing it in and rasping pieces from it's flesh until it is entirely consumed; some time during this process the prey snail dies, presumably a painful and lingering death.
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Oct 14, 2009 23:14:55 GMT
Being eaten alive can't be good to experience.
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 15, 2009 8:31:19 GMT
I know as it is for the mouse with the snake and again, there is people keeping hamsters and snakes. I'm fascinated from the capabilities of this snail...I'll just now keep waiting for someone who maybe has them and can tell me more about how to keep them.
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malti
Achatina achatina
I haz minions!
Posts: 102
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Post by malti on Oct 15, 2009 9:44:48 GMT
I know as it is for the mouse with the snake and again, there is people keeping hamsters and snakes. I'm fascinated from the capabilities of this snail...I'll just now keep waiting for someone who maybe has them and can tell me more about how to keep them. I keep both, hamsters & snakes, and soon Euglandina and GALS/other snails. after all its a natural thing. ps. I have some new info on them - will post it soon
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 15, 2009 16:36:59 GMT
I keep both, hamsters & snakes, and soon Euglandina and GALS/other snails. after all its a natural thing. ps. I have some new info on them - will post it soon thank you for the back up
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Rachel
Archachatina puylaerti
They see me snailin'
Posts: 1,183
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Post by Rachel on Oct 15, 2009 19:49:23 GMT
I have heard this species can be fed pieces of chicken and such, is this correct? Speaking for myself I could not hatch a snail just to have it be eaten by another, or give a snail to one just for it to have to endure being eaten. I know its nature, but there is no way I could do it.
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malti
Achatina achatina
I haz minions!
Posts: 102
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Post by malti on Oct 15, 2009 21:03:52 GMT
I have heard this species can be fed pieces of chicken and such, is this correct? Speaking for myself I could not hatch a snail just to have it be eaten by another, or give a snail to one just for it to have to endure being eaten. I know its nature, but there is no way I could do it. snails are a source of food and calcium to the euglandina, whereas chicken isn't. Feeding them just chicken would stray from their natural diet, and could possibly weaken/kill the Euglandina due to lack of nutrients. and if u can't rear snails for it to eat, answer is easy, don't keep it.
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aerliss
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 281
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Post by aerliss on Oct 16, 2009 2:05:28 GMT
I've kept lizards that eat live crickets and meal worms (never managed to work my up to any bigger reptiles). I've bred the meal worms (it's dead easy) and kept pet crickets. My fish ate my ramshorn snail hatchlings (good gracious can those things breed!). Hey, I've kept pet bunnies and eaten the wild variety (never eaten domestic). My mother keeps chickens and eats shop bought ones. How many of us have kept pet fish and wouldn't think twice about ordering haddock and chips? We rear/kill animals just for food (that for our pets and that for ourselves) all the time.
I have no problem with eating pet species or feeding them to other pets. Except rats and dogs... I think my conscience would rapidly explode if I ate rat or dog in any circumstance that was not life threatening. There's a few other vertibrates I would have a hard time consuming... but that's getting too off-topic.
I think that this is an amazing species, that they have adapted in such an unusual way. I find nothing about their behaviour reprehensible; they cannot be held up to human standards (though what would you rather; starve or eat a GAL?). They are surviving in the only way they are capable. It's not as if they have a choice in the matter.
I was thinking of other possible food sources for pet euglandina today... could whelks be a possibility, or would their salt content be too high? Fresh water, though expensive molluscs such oysters? Or would they simply not recognise these as food?
Not that feeding them one mollusc over another mollusc makes a blind bit of difference to me (I can't eat something if its death came about through a pot of boiling water... scientific evidence of pain receptors or not) but some people would find it easier to give them already dead, not bred by themselves beasties.
Chicken huh? There could very well be more easily obtained mammal, fish or bird species whose... meat has similar nutritional content to molluscs. If a supplement was added (just as we give our snails cuttle bone and such), another, more acceptable food source might be found.
Now I'm just rambling because it's 3am... so I'll stop. Malti; looking forward to your additional information XD
Hope I've not offended anyone... just trying to explain why I have no problem with people keeping them. Probably wouldn't keep them myself though.
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kanin
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 263
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Post by kanin on Oct 16, 2009 10:47:08 GMT
Yes, it might be possible to call this "natural" but then only because of the vagueness and complexity of this word for there is not much "natural" about the way we keep snails or other animals for that sake. And if you look of what human intereference have done to many animals wild environment the things "natural" about their wild existence becomes very hard to define.
The "natural" issue is not a valid argument here, there is nothing natural about keeping snails, there's nothing natural about eating meat, there is nothing natural about being a vegetarian and there is nothing natural about breeding snails to feed another snail. One cannot hide behind the argument of "nature" as in the end it is you who are making the descission to kill one animal to to feed another and it is you who make the descission to breed animals just in order to kill them. It's not about population control it's about you wanting to keep Euglandina rosea and it's about your own moral standards. If you want to keep this species and feed it baby fulica it's only about that and I will not judge you for this.
However, I do care very little about however it's natural or not to keep this snail or how natural the ways of supplying it food might be. And I do care very little about the moral values about this. What I do care about is what you who want to keep this snail believe this is going to do with the way you relate to your snails? Will not feeding an loved pet the babies of another loved pet change the way you perceive and relate to your snails? And will not activly killing your pet baby fulicas brethren change the way you perceive it? Will you still feel the same for it?
I'm not sure I'm being clear, let me illustrate:
You who read this who've growned up in an rural environment may have some similar experience to this or can perhaps envisionate this. What happens to the child when it understands that the rabbits in the enclosure in the garden is not only for it to play with but also the same rabbits that turn up on it's plate? Will this not change the way the child perceive these rabbits? And will not your new role of choosing painful death for some of your snails while life for others not change the way you perceive them? There is permanent damage that can be done here.
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aerliss
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 281
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Post by aerliss on Oct 16, 2009 11:14:57 GMT
Kanin; I understand you clearly XD
I don't know if the change in perception would be damaging though. It all depends on personal preference. A vicar I once knew kept his own pigs. He named them. He loved them. Eventually he shot and ate them. He would recount his months with them as happy times... then tell us the recipes he used them in. The reaction you have to discovering your food was once a fluffy or cute living thing will depend solely on your own experiences and opinions on what food is, isn't and should or should not be.
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 16, 2009 12:31:53 GMT
kanin let's be practical. I have 5 fulica, i travel a lot and one day they're gonna make 300 babies and i'm not gonna know what to do with them and i don't have the space. I would rather not be considered the person that doesn't love its pets and all their babies the same way because i was going to leave the italian forum where i'm moderator because they EAT the snails that their pets make as babies and for me that is UNACCEPTABLE. If there is a way in which euglandina can be fed alternatively and then eventually eat babies that i missed so it is more "natural" than any other death they could suffer because since you're not considering the topic i'm the one who's gonna say that they could be impossibile to rehome and they have to die. I'm sorry but i'm struggling just to find a decent way to solve this problem that i will have to deal with.
and by the way. i don't eat rabbits because i used to pet the ones that my grandma kept as food. as well as i don't eat animald that get boiled alive.
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malti
Achatina achatina
I haz minions!
Posts: 102
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Post by malti on Oct 16, 2009 12:52:09 GMT
well for me aslong as the "feeder" animal is taken care of to the highest standard,be it a rabbit, mouse, snail, mealworm, microworm or whatever. I have no problem with that.
Aerliss, I'm getting keeping breeding tips from an expert...if the mods want I'll make a caresheet and they can take a copy.
birdie - not only italians eat le lumache...
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birdie
Achatina achatina
Posts: 70
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Post by birdie on Oct 16, 2009 13:07:11 GMT
birdie - not only italians eat le lumache... nah nah nah wait a second. There is a difference between people going to the restaurant and eating escargot and some people keeping snails for pets and letting them having babies because they keep the species mixed and they don't know who's babies are and then if they are not of interest boil them alive to eat them. It is extremely unnecessary. maybe it is just me but food for the euglandina is one thing, boiling them alive to eat them it is much different. It is for me at least i don't want everyone to share my opinion.
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