apple
Archachatina degneri
Posts: 1,078
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Post by apple on Apr 7, 2007 8:25:58 GMT
looool. What a nice answer Coyote! It seems that you are a «bit» experienced on these sort of things.I agree with your opinion. However, you don´t need to feel an outsider, because there are more foreign people here and many person also keep small snails. I actually admire the way you keep your Helix aspersa. I sometimes see some newbies here making questions on which the answers are quite visible on the board, but I often answer them when I see that they still have no answer after some days... I sometimes make some jokes but I think that it are innofensive ones and it´s just to put people more confortable ( like it´s no problem about asking this or that). I respect the other people decisions, about leaving the forum or just passing here few times, but maybe because I don´t give great value to some answers or because I´m a busy person, personally, I´ll just keep trying being present, posting, receiving or giving advices, and I won´t leave easily this forum. The first time I came here, people were very nice and friendly with me, and I almost didn´t felt any difference about belonging from a different culture, when I only wanted to share a similar «like» for snails, and even in some situations when I felt that I wasn´t respected at all, I think that I hang on well and didn´t gave any value or credit to those situations, as life outside is so hard didn´t felt anything hard here. People just have to be strong, effective and at the same time gentle, patient and friendly. Best wishes for all.
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teresa
Achatina fulica
Posts: 0
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Post by teresa on Apr 7, 2007 11:02:04 GMT
i have just read though what you said paul , its not always easy to put into words the knowledge you have gained me for one dont find it easy i dont know about other members on here, i could tell someone i know step by step on how to hatch eggs, how often and how i clean them out, what and how often to feed, breeding conditions etc but im not much good at putting it in writing
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Post by Paul on Apr 7, 2007 13:37:00 GMT
It's sad to think that that's not what you want for your site, you want even the thickest of us to start measuring, researching, making web pages....when a lot of us just dont have the time or the inclination. Does that make us bad members? This is maybe one of the reasons why folks aren't posting as much. Since the new rules came into effect, it does come across as "if you dont have anything of importance to share - dont bother posting". When I joined, it was chatty and fun. No offense to anyone here, but there's no fun here any more. I'm not saying everyone must help out, I'm saying that if more people got involved there would be more activity. There is only so many times round the track people are willing to go. And as for the new rules, we responded to lots and lots of complaints about people being mithered for snails and one word posts littering everything. And you can still chat as much as you wish in the chat sections. We just don't want loads of chat in certain specific sections. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. There isn't much I can do about it.
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Post by copigeon on Apr 7, 2007 14:13:37 GMT
Hmm,
Ok... the way I see it, we need more incentive to participate and offer personal experiences, and a clearer outlook for the forum which is more welcoming for chat.
Lets say we....
Mentally split the forum completely, two very clear sections (we already have them, but lets say we changed the colours, so one was red and one was blue).
Chat and your pets (BLUE) Sections like: General chat etc etc,
Then the other half of the forum (RED) Species specific etc,
Chat section is UNMODERATED, arguments are not stopped, threads are not locked, posts are not cleaned up. No moderation. Exception being foul language or anything criminal or of adult nature. Posts containing this deleted without discussion or argument (Doesnt happen often). Post as much as you want, what you want, however many words you want whereever you want in this section and it wont be touched by moderators UNLESS it contains offensive material. Then its deleted, no discussion.
The other section, moderated. No one word posts try and stay on topic. (again not iron fist stuff just, keeping it easy to read) Use this section as a dump resource for all of your finds or discoveries etc which are relevant to the hobby on a technical level. Does not have to be written like a thesis, "I found out today that *species here* prefers to collect in groups than be alone when resting" is fine? Its useful! Really useful. The greatest experience available is that of someone who interracts daily with the animal, no matter how its written its all useful!
Would that combat the feelings of "I cant post it might be wrong?"
Paul is right in what he says about a lack of participation making the forum lose interest for some members. Personally I can only see so many "can my snail eat *veg here*" before I stop checking back. Its not because I dont accept we all start somewhere, its that my own experience goes beyond that and I need something which challenges my own ideas and methods to give me the incentive to post. Im happy to reply to little questions, but if thats all I ever do I wonder why I bother to come here to read? There was a point where people showed a genuine interest in the species they were rearing, now with so many new species available I havent seen hardly any attempt to share what has been discovered about them and thier requirements.
I used to post my findings on the forum, I no longer bother because no one reads that part of the forum anymore? Everything I find these days goes on my own site as at least there I can keep track of it.
What would make you want to contribute to finding out about the species you keep? Not... huge great disatations, just a weekly diary, or recording how certain foods are taken, or writing a little paragraph on your experiences on using moss etc? Prizes? Public fame?
What if an effort to get the snail society newsletter up and running again was made? But this time have it printed and posted out to you all? Would having a printed paper copy of something to read get you interested in joining in? What if you all had member numbers? Felt part of a community because you had a yearly "membership" package with some extra benefits? I'd be happy to supply little prizes for some competitions, would competitons help?
I think its too much to hope that people will put the same effort into research of the snails they keep without reason to do so... because alot of people just want pets and people do quickly lose interest in them as theyre considered a "starter exotic". Just like people start out with a hamster and ends up with a dog. But there can be more to this place than just chit chat.
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Post by Paul on Apr 7, 2007 14:28:12 GMT
I like those ideas immensely...
The moderation ideas are great, it will solidify our policy on posting, make it clearer and hopefully not put people off. People like Lisa are very valuable to the forum because of their interest in chatting, I want to make it clear I wasn't trying to stop this in any way. We just wanted it more organised so there are sections to suit everyone.
Regarding membership etc. I think that is what I was trying to get across, finding some way to make people want to be more involved but with more of a feeling of belonging, membership and value.
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Post by copigeon on Apr 7, 2007 14:33:13 GMT
I think because the difference in the two sides of the forum isnt visual it can be confusing and there for maybe more concerning than it need be.
Changing the colours of the two halves of the board would make that a clear visual code of "chat here" and "info here"?
If people are genuinely interested in a membership, if that would be valuable for you, I need you to list me ideas of what you would want from your membership? What would you want to recieve when you joined? What would you want to recieve periodically and how often? What sort of things would make you want to participate?
Chat is essential for building "community" but so is information for building the hobby and society... they need to be equally important.
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Post by Paul on Apr 7, 2007 14:40:07 GMT
Changing the colours of the two halves of the board would make that a clear visual code of "chat here" and "info here"? I'm not sure we can even do that. It's not part of the default style options you get, but I'll look into it. Maybe it is time to move to a forum that I manage, thus enabling us to do whatever we wish. Just need to migrate posts and users which has always put me off but if it needs doing... I'll look for a way to do it on proboards first though.
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Post by felix93 on Apr 7, 2007 14:53:54 GMT
The lack of interest for posting on the board has already happened. The damage is done and it takes time to get it back to the normal or more like original PS forum IMO.
I can see your point to organise the forum a little bit more, I have no objection for that at all and I think it's good in a way. But you cannot force people not to change subject after a few replies for that post. Put BN for the start, yes they have got a lot more different creatures to talk about, but even if you go and read one species, members on there chat with different kind of things. I remembered a thread in the announcemebt section, it was just reminding us the Spring time changing and not to put the clock forward, at the end, members talking about being sick in the sink and how to solve that problems out. It was complately off topic especially it's in the announcement section, but members had a laugh about it, admins and mods did not do anything. The point is there's no stopping for others to slightly or completely off topic on that board. What I am sayin, I think members are scared of posting something off topic on a thread and then being told off or the thread's being pulled. That comes to "what's the point".
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Post by copigeon on Apr 7, 2007 15:36:57 GMT
lol sorry felix! I modified instead of replying Fixed it now The point is there's no stopping for others to slightly or completely off topic on that board. What I am sayin, I think members are scared of posting something off topic on a thread and then being told off or the thread's being pulled. That comes to what's the point This has been reitterated repeatedly - thats only the case in certain sections of the board. Always has been. But people havent seemed to get that fact and keep saying how terrible it is now everything is censored... which just isnt the case. Maybe theres a lack of clarity of that being the case? Which is why I suggest a visual change for the forum (if possible) making it far clearer about what is moderated and what isnt? Even if that means having only 2 headers instead of colours. One chat and community, The other research and information,
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Post by alexc1981 on Apr 7, 2007 16:34:47 GMT
What if an effort to get the snail society newsletter up and running again was made? But this time have it printed and posted out to you all? Would having a printed paper copy of something to read get you interested in joining in? What if you all had member numbers? Felt part of a community because you had a yearly "membership" package with some extra benefits? I'd be happy to supply little prizes for some competitions, would competitons help? That will cost time and money so whoever is organising it will have to charge an annual fee. I joined a similar scheme on a Metro site. I used to get a quarterly magazine which contained information about repairs and servicing, recommended spares suppliers, readers stories and featured cars. Each area (such as south east England/Wales/Mid-lands etc) had an "area rep" who's task was to organise meetings for that area. Maybe something similar could work here. The only drawback was that I only subscribed for a couple of years because I soon found that the information started getting repeated and most of it was available for free via the website and forum anyway.
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
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Post by LisaLQ on Apr 7, 2007 19:25:28 GMT
I really like the ideas Em had there - the different sections for fun and research (I know we already have them, but making them stand out more etc). Maybe seperate mod teams for each area (ie one for the chatty/fun section, one for the researchy bit)? Or maybe not even "mod" teams, rather than area experts...erm...you know, like a "club". Maybe with the membership ideas we could have membership groups like "fun forum member" or "research member" and then "all round member"....or is that a bit much? Perhaps not those words though, I'm finding it hard to think of the right ones... Maybe I'm getting a bit too complicated there, there's only so much you can do with a website lol. Ps. Thanks for saying the nice words Paul, it was really nice *blush* I hope my messages didn't come across as trouble making - I'm honestly trying to think of ways to get this place up and at 'em again, because I love it here and would hate to see it dry up (like S2D4) I mean, where else would this sad old wench spend her time?
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goose
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 311
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Post by goose on Apr 8, 2007 12:52:11 GMT
OK positive action - personally I don't have a problem answering 'newbie' questions, (even if the same ones keep cropping up) they rarely take long and all of us on here who have kept snails can answer at least some of them if only just from our own experiences and what we have already learnt. there are enough of us on here that no one person needs to be answering all of them all of the time. Sometimes new members without a lot of experience raise questions which can teach us all something. So a positive action for me would be to allow more of these questions to be answered directly to avoid putting people off posting what others deem unecessary question.
And yes I like Em's idea because I also would like more in depth knowledge about my snails through shared experiences. Do we really need the split though? Aren't there sections alredy on here which already lend themselves as areas for more - in depth knowledge. I would like the 'species specific' part to be a lot more used. I agree not everyone on here wants to research but everyone has experiences to share about how their snails act/react to different situations, evironments - that includes those just keeping them as 'pets' How about having a 'Welcome and newbie section' which can be chatty and people can fire the mor mundane questions with perhaps an invitiation as a 'stickie' in there to search through the other sections for more information and to encourage any observations to be posted in the other sections - to share knowledge.
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apple
Archachatina degneri
Posts: 1,078
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Post by apple on Apr 8, 2007 21:59:19 GMT
Hi Of course that I like Emma ideas. Honestly some days ago I was about to suggest to open a chat on petsnails ( Grant is the witness) ;D ;D. Nice to see things evolving on the good way here.
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Post by Paul on Apr 9, 2007 1:13:57 GMT
With regard to the idea of getting to know each other, I'm wondering if it would be worth creating a template of some description for members to optionally fill in, with photos etc. Or perhaps just a page you can freely create using bb code. These could be linked to from signatures, and would let people into a bit of background about each other.
Any thoughts about if this is a good idea or not? Would a template with set sections be best or giving people a free hand?
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
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Post by LisaLQ on Apr 9, 2007 8:55:16 GMT
I do like the new colours. But....(ducks in case of incoming mod slappage)....it's a bit confusing on the eye to have them scattered all over, but that might just be me and my specs LOL.
Can I give my two-pennorth? It might be long...
1. Have four sections. Site issues. General snail care/chat section. Research and info. Off-topic area.
2. Site issues forums: News and Info, Issues and Improvements. Mods area hidden to all but mods.
3. General Snail Chat/Info forums: General Discussion, rename Information as Frequently Asked Questions (or "Useful Snail Information"), Problems and Help, Pictures, Competitions, (Snail Society maybe), Obituaries/Memorial.
4. Snail Research and Information forums: same as now, with the addition of Species Pictures for website (and maybe Snail Society - I've no idea what goes on with the society so dont know if it's a chatty thing or a research thing).
5. Off topic area: same as it is now.
Does that make any sense?
I also think the info and research area should be more heavily moderated, so that instead of folks asking "can my snail eat lettuce" in the feeding area - it would be more questions like "are snails capable of processing lettuce" (using crap examples here - work with me LOL). Then we could encourage folks wanting basic advice to read either the Useful Snail Information board, or post on the General board for basic care questions?
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teresa
Achatina fulica
Posts: 0
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Post by teresa on Apr 9, 2007 10:13:47 GMT
lisa its the specs im having same problem ,but the colours are great has someone posted what colours mean what i was not around much yesterday what with my specs and now being thick lol
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Post by section8angel on Apr 9, 2007 10:24:16 GMT
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teresa
Achatina fulica
Posts: 0
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Post by teresa on Apr 9, 2007 10:26:24 GMT
thanks sian
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Post by copigeon on Apr 9, 2007 16:56:50 GMT
Like the colours paul, does that make things easier for people? Does it make it clearer as to whats what?
The profiles type attachment sounds interesting, "about me" style pages? Anyone else think this would be beneficial to the community feel of the forum?
Lisa a society is based on all aspects of the hobby, I was thinking along the lines of a club for all ages to participate to try and build on hobby both as pets and otherwise. Fun being a large aspect of that.
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Post by Paul on Apr 9, 2007 19:59:05 GMT
I could put a key in the header if that would help?
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teresa
Achatina fulica
Posts: 0
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Post by teresa on Apr 9, 2007 20:54:23 GMT
yes that sounds a gd idea em
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
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Post by LisaLQ on Apr 9, 2007 21:02:24 GMT
I love the idea of the about me style pages, that would be great!
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Apr 9, 2007 21:11:38 GMT
New colour "schemes" are excellent!!! now all we need is the classifieds back ;D
Val
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teresa
Achatina fulica
Posts: 0
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Post by teresa on Apr 9, 2007 21:13:38 GMT
i vote yes to that to val lol
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Apr 9, 2007 21:19:43 GMT
There ya go thats two of us wanting it back, any more..........................?? ;D
Val
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