Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2006 14:01:44 GMT
Stripey died. I'm really really really upset I probly won't get any more of these species, they're too difficult to look after. Well at least I've still got Atalanta (for the time being)
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Post by section8angel on Jan 8, 2006 14:11:56 GMT
So sorry Mike
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
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Post by LisaLQ on Jan 8, 2006 14:16:15 GMT
Oh Mike, I'm so sorry
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
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Post by Val on Jan 8, 2006 17:44:53 GMT
Oh Mike I am so sorry to hear that. Was Stripey a Lignus tree snail? I decided against getting any of these as the feeding was very touch and go.
Val
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2006 10:22:05 GMT
Stripey was one of my 2 immaculata
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KathyM
Achatina tincta
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Post by KathyM on Jan 9, 2006 20:22:43 GMT
I'm so sorry Mike. I thought Justin was making a recovery as he came out temporarily, but he's retracted back in again
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jan 9, 2006 21:02:10 GMT
I have been asked to move this here, soz for taking over your thread Gabi.
personally i think they just have to be kept at a constant temperature and conditions, because if you note people who hatch and raise them usually do well but the moment you send them out to another home and all of a sudden they stop growing, they stop eating because we can't all have exactly the same temp houses etc, maybe when we sell eachother dimi's we should pass over as much information as possible for example what they have been eating, subsrate, temperature, if they have been kept with other snails or species, because my theory is that they are reacting badly to change, even the blistering i think is a sign of stress like when people keep diturbing them and picking them up etc,
Gosh had to get that out of my system......i'm done :-)
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jan 9, 2006 21:16:13 GMT
I kind of half agree with you Sarah. I personally think the dimis (as babies at least, I have no experience with adults of course) are extremely sensitive to change - more so than other types of snail. I dont think it's anyone getting it wrong, I just think even the slightest change in room temp can cause them to react like this. For example - my house is central heated, they have had plenty of heat - all my other snails are fine. But one day the room temp might differ by a degree (an example - god knows whether it does or not!), and despite anyone's central heating system, or heat mat, there will be some fluctuation in temp. I just think, with these coming from SA rather than where our more common snails are found - that they have much different needs. And one of those is a regular temp while they're babies. It's only a theory. Maybe they can cope with slight changes in temp/humidity, but any more than a slight change can set them off again. And maybe they're just not very easy pets to keep, they dont adapt to pet life very well. This is only me going on my babies - I know my house is warm, I know their tank is wet, I know what food they'll eat (if/when they do) and I know where they like to hide. But what I cant control are the slight changes - eg. tonight it's frosty outside. My heating's running ok, not changed the thermostat or anything. Room temperature is fine, apart from around ankle height - where it's cooler compared to yesterday (no frost). Since noticing these changes, I've not kept their tanks on the floor. I cant help the floor temp - so I have to adapt for them - and move their tank. But if they're as sensitive to change as we think they are, they'll still notice. Am I making sense?
I dont think anyone has done anything wrong, in fact they've done all they can to do things the right way. Avoiding holding them isn't an option, these snails need waking up to feed - they need baths, they need placing on their cuttlefish. If folks avoided that - they'd die.
So did I make sense? I agree with you that they dont like change - but I dont agree about the handling part - it's unavoidable.
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Post by section8angel on Jan 9, 2006 21:34:57 GMT
The blistering isn't just a dimi thing though is it? My big reti did it the other day and didn't you say some of your others had done it too?
I do agree it's a stress thing though.
Mike said he thought they could be sensitive to change which is why I said about mine not being posted as it fits. Mine are ok and they didn't go through a lot of moving around, cold overnight stop etc, where as yours were posted and aren't the same as mine. Of course though there are exceptions. I think copigeons are ok? I can't remember who else posted "healthy" looking babies.
I know slight temp changes are ok, for mine anyway as it goes from 22/23 down to around 18 nearly everynight and then back up again in the morning. But mine should be used to it by now.
Back to the blistering for a minute though, as I said I do agree it's stress related, but Lisa's other theory also seems to make sense. Mine have only done it when I've picked them off of the side/lid/plantpot etc. They haven't done it when I've picked them up off of the matting or moss. That goes for the reti I saw it on too, I had picked him off of the lid.
You are making sense btw, both of you.
On another note, I'm sorting out heat lamps for my tanks, so will let you know if this makes my dimis grow more or anything.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jan 9, 2006 21:53:41 GMT
I'm not saying it's anyones fault, but we could keep handling to a minimum, These are snails after all not animals and we can't know whats going on with them like you can with a dog or cat, If your a fairly hardy person then you will let nature take it's course, if the snail gets hungry it can wake up and eat when it wants, if the snail is ill and destined to die then that is what should happen.
However if and i know they do, mean so much to you and you wouldn't want them to die without knowing you tried to help, then try and keep handling to a minimum by not bathing them unless they have bugs etc not just if they have soil on their shell! and when you want to wake them to feed, then just pick them up by their shell and put them onthe food, if they crawl away theres no need to pick them up again and try putting them on a different peice of food, they can smell and if they are going to eat they will go to the food them selves, you know what i'm saying?
i'm not saying your not trying
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Jan 9, 2006 21:58:12 GMT
I just looked back on my calendar to see when I received my dimi babies from Paul and it was actually last May. I remember they didn't seem to move or grow very much at first and I was waking them every day and placing them on the cuttlefish etc., and then when it got really warm in the August I used to put them (still very small) on a plastic tray on my kitchen windowsill in the direct sun to see if a LOT of heat made any difference and it did, they were VERY active and made NO effort to get out of the sun ( I tried this with my tiger babies and they didn't seem to enjoy it as much). The point I am making is that perhaps, just perhaps these guys need a LOT of warmth, like 85-90F for a period of time during the day, once they were back in their tank obviously the temperature was lower, but I used to feed them porridge, soft banana when they were IN the sun. Your heat lamp idea Sian might be just what they need!! Oh I do so hope it is.
Val
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jan 9, 2006 22:00:59 GMT
yes i think that has a lot to do with it, i have said this before because i use a heat mat and a heat lamp and mine have all grown since, one has grown half a cm! and i only started this about nearly 3 weeks ago.
Mine are doing ok now, it's you guys i'm trying to help.
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
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Post by LisaLQ on Jan 9, 2006 22:08:24 GMT
I'm not saying it's anyones fault, but we could keep handling to a minimum, These are snails after all not animals and we can't know whats going on with them like you can with a dog or cat, If your a fairly hardy person then you will let nature take it's course, if the snail gets hungry it can wake up and eat when it wants, if the snail is ill and destined to die then that is what should happen. However if and i know they do, mean so much to you and you wouldn't want them to die without knowing you tried to help, then try and keep handling to a minimum by not bathing them unless they have bugs etc not just if they have soil on their shell! and when you want to wake them to feed, then just pick them up by their shell and put them onthe food, if they crawl away theres no need to pick them up again and try putting them on a different peice of food, they can smell and if they are going to eat they will go to the food them selves, you know what i'm saying? i'm not saying your not trying In answer to this Sarah, this may get a bit long. Firstly, snails are animals (!), and I dont think it's right to leave any animal to nature, after all - that would mean sending all our snails back to the wild *lol* this isn't nature. It's like saying "my dog is dying, I dont know what's wrong, I wont bother with a vet - I'll just leave it - it's nature". It isn't nature or natural. We take these animals and adapt them to our version of their life, and it's our responsibility to them to make sure they get the best care. Leaving it to die because I dont know what's wrong with it is wrong. The only snails I bathe are the dimis, and the margies (once so far). I dont bathe any of my snails for being dirty! Soil doesnt bother me, as I dont use it anyway. They are given warm baths to help them heat up and hopefully get off their snaily arses and eat something. When I pick mine up to feed, that's exactly what I do - pick them up and put them on food. If they dont eat, they dont eat, I only try once. I dont know if I gave out the impression that I'm constantly handling them and putting them on food - it doesn't happen like that. Once a day, or sometimes every two days, I'll find them, and pick them up - check their shell, and put them on food. That's it. I (possibly wrongly) get the feeling that you're looking down on me, and have a completely made up impression of what I do with them. I also get the feeling that whatever I say, there'll be something you have to poke at to make yourself look like an expert. No offense , truly, Sarah, as I think you're a great laugh - but really - is it necessary to keep telling us we're doing something wrong? I know you didn't like it when others criticised you about your handling of the mites - and I'm sure you dont mean to make me feel the same as you did.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jan 9, 2006 22:17:26 GMT
I am no way talking to you in particular, this goes for a lot of people when i say about the picking up and putting on food thing, i'm not saying that to you or anyone in particular, i just know some people do and it's just to let everyone know, i don't see myself as an expert, and no one say you have to go by what i say, it's your call, this is what forums are for correcting and being corrected, i just give my opinion and it's up to you guys whether you give it a go or ignor me, about the nature thing, again not saying you ar even anyone on this forum sees them as 'just' snails but some people do and thats what they do, sorry i didn't mean to sound like that, i must admit i am a stubborn person but i am not a kind of person to pick on a individual or be mean at all.
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Jan 9, 2006 22:26:28 GMT
Well replied Sarah, although I think that Lisa was rather rude. No offence of course Lisa!!
Val
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Post by copigeon on Jan 9, 2006 22:31:58 GMT
Just to butt in Ive had some issues with them also. Lost the first one of a pair from paul, whilst it was in a mixed tank with fulcia and iredalei. Perfectly happy snail one day, empty shell the next. Acquired, 4 more, forget who from. 3 grew dandy and ones a complete runt, so Im lead to believe that the stunted growth in some just may be related to a higher mortality rate which is not experienced in captivity due to controlled conditions. But. All had a ridged shell issue? And have very damaged early growth. This continued whilst on underfloor heating with capillary and spagnum. But they have always eaten fine. Just very slow damaged shell growth. This has recently changed. I have them in a propogator with one of my teracotta heaters. On coir. No spagnum. With a collection of other similarly sized juvenilles. They get a good dousing of water a week and are then allowed to dry out (bar the humidity pool on top of the heater). I allow the coir to get very dry, they never seal up. They get fed once every 3 days, are bathed before hand and placed around said food. I have found the best way of feeding them is a mixture of torn lettuce, the purple... stuff. Romany? Courgette and Sweet potato which are both thinly sliced using the, cheese slicing side? Of a cheese grater. Ever since Ive started feeding all snails in this manner, with very finely sliced veg, and allowing said tank to dry out between wet spells. Thier shell growth has been perfect, no bad areas no ridging no dry lack of pattern. Theyre growing much faster than they were before, and all are active every night. I know Im adding to a list of similar variables But never the less, I have found this to work for me.
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Post by copigeon on Jan 9, 2006 22:44:56 GMT
I didn’t bother to read back through alot of this, simply because I find the tittering annoying: P I can fully understand why there is tittering. Doesn’t make it any less annoying.
But with regards to "picking up and placing on food" practice. I find its a perfectly valid method of preventing the hibernation attempts made by the wrong conditions. I practice it as a prequel to feeding as a method of training if anything. If you repeat an action often enough any animal will pick up on whats going on. You can train stick insects with misting. Dogs with whistles. I see no harm of doing the same with snails and baths.
Captive animals soon become accustomed to habits, feeding times. Anything to improve and fixate that adjustment is beneficial. Its not like the animal will learn not to feed at any other time.
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Post by section8angel on Jan 9, 2006 23:29:20 GMT
Mine have only had the blistering if I've take them off of the side/lid etc like I said. So I personally wont be taking a minimal approach to it (with most my snails that is. It would mean not getting as many pics of them anyway lol ). What I will be doing though is only picking them up if they're -not- attached to something. I'm going to be doing this from now on and I'll be taking note of how many times (if any) they blister when I do it this way. I'm not saying anyone is wrong with the way they handle them either, if you take the "minimal" approach to handling then that is totally your decision. I actually use a pretty minimal approach with my fulica. I just put the food in, spray and that's it (unless it's cleaning out time of course). I don't bother putting them on the food as I know they will find it. I just like to make sure the others know there's food in there as they're still growing. With Freddie I do it just 'cause he's a lazy so and so lol. I find what you've said interesting copigeon, about letting them dry out between damp spells. I missed a few days spraying when my dimis were in their old tank and they both sealed up. Since they've been in with the margies and have been damper they haven't done it at all! Could it be because yours have the heated pot? Mine don't have a heat source at the moment, they're just at room temp. I don't think mine are that fussy about temp in regards to them not eating etc because of it. The not growing fast has to be something to do with it, after what everyone has said about getting the temp higher and them then having growth spurts, but apart from that they don't seem too bothered by it as they're still eating and active etc. Val, this is probably the bulb I'll be using. I'm just getting some cheap clip on light fittings and then some of these bulbs. www.exo-terra.com/EN/products/heat_glo_heating_i.html
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jan 10, 2006 1:25:39 GMT
I just want to say I didn't mean to be rude - hence me saying I think Sarah's a nice lass. If it came across as rude, it wasn't intended. Sorry. What I meant was it's hard when you're on the other end of advice, if people look like they're jumping to conclusions, or repeating things already said. I didn't mean to have a dig - I just feel a bit like there's nothing I can do right - I've got them too cold, too dry, too warm, wrong substrate, wrong handling, bathing them too much, bathing them too little, trying the wrong foods, forcing them into coming out....I just want to do what's best, and I dont know what's best when everything I've tried hasn't worked. I'm sorry Sarah - and Val - I didn't mean to be having a go - just it's easy to get upset when you're on the receiving end of so much contradictary advice. The hard bit being I trust every single one of you implicitely! Bugger it. I'm going to stop my hormonal ramblings now before I offend someone else
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jan 10, 2006 1:27:22 GMT
Ps. Neither Gary or Sally were hidden when I've checked them today. They're in their shells, but in the middle of the tank near the food. Gary and Sally are the only ones I put on food, the others are so greedy they work it out on their own.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jan 10, 2006 10:34:59 GMT
See and i respect you for saying sorry for whatever attitude you may have come across as, you are a nice person to, in fact everyone on this forum are nice people (apart from the trolls) and i know it can look as if everyone is talking to you directly as you are replying with your opinions, but if you noticed i haven't said anything about you or your snails in particular everything i said is about what 'i think' not what i know, i have been shouted at on here before too, not to intentionally upset me, but i know it does kind of upset you because you don't know what attitude they are really talking to you in, you have to try and spot sarcasm etc it can be difficult, but what you have to think is no one here hates you and everyone here are adults or young adults and we don't have childish temper tantrums, lol, and if anyone does get annoyed then it probably because they have been peed off by something else off the snail forum, and it is quite hard to hide your feelngs and act all happy and cheery if in actual fact you are really angry and naffed off and you do tend to explode now and then (btw again i'm not talking to you in particular here, lol, when i say 'you' i refere to eveyone) i think more than not, people don't mean to come across as spiteful, you know?
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jan 10, 2006 13:19:51 GMT
Yeah, I know now - I guess lack of sleep got me in a crappy mood (triplets were awake til after 3am). Remind me not to post straight away - to take time out and get the happy head back on *lol* Sorry folks.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jan 10, 2006 14:38:20 GMT
don't worry we all feel like crap sometimes
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
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Post by Val on Jan 10, 2006 19:11:19 GMT
copigeon, that is VERY interesting. A good dousing once a week and then drying out would of course match 'natural' conditions better then spraying every day - which I do. My dimis are growing and eating well, but their shells look awful, VERY ridged, VERY dry, the only time their shells look half decent is when they are wetted. What depth of coir do you use copigeon? I used to use coir, I had about an inch of it on the bottom, not sure if that was enough really. Capillary matting does dry out a lot quicker than my coir used to. Oh dear, I am wondering now whether to change back to coir!!! I'm really not that happy about their shell growth, find I keep wondering why it is growing like that.
Val
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
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Post by LisaLQ on Jan 10, 2006 19:24:40 GMT
Is this coir easy to get hold of? Pet shops or DIY places?
I'm not 100% pleased with the capillary, it'll do, but it's not fantastic lol.
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