|
Post by sezzy5889 on Dec 20, 2005 19:36:39 GMT
Monty isn't a true albino though he just has albino genes in him, hes the same as mine, they are from the same batch.
|
|
LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
|
Post by LisaLQ on Dec 21, 2005 0:21:52 GMT
I never said he was an albino? I said he wasn't an albo(picta). Speed reading again, chicken? ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2005 9:20:06 GMT
now that I think about it, stuhlmanni are quite similar to panthera, especially young ones. and that they can crossbreed supports this.
but but but I don't understand at all about this reticulata thing. our reticulata do have the reticulated shells, and i always thought it was the most unmistakeable achatina there is. all albopicta i've seen have smooth shells and don't have that dark head. i'll take pics of my young albo and reti for comparison.
perhaps you shouldn't take the Berquaert book as gospel?
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 10:41:40 GMT
but but but I don't understand at all about this reticulata thing. our reticulata do have the reticulated shells, and i always thought it was the most unmistakeable achatina there is. all albopicta i've seen have smooth shells and don't have that dark head. i'll take pics of my young albo and reti for comparison. perhaps you shouldn't take the Berquaert book as gospel? Maybe you're right but look at this way, whoever identified the albopicta you have seen used the Bequaert book, it is the most comprehensive and up-to-date and covers all of the other malacologists works regarding Achatininae. And I would rather trust him than someone just saying "yeah, I was told it was such and such" which is pretty much all I have ever seen regarding any species. We know the dealers haven't a clue and we completely lose any geographic info by the time we get them. In many cases the geographic data is the main separating factor, one which I think will erode with biological studies. Until we get better information, perhaps from Mead I am sticking to Bequaert in light of zero alternatives. Albopicta also have reticulated shells, but slightly less so than reticulata and they are more variable. The two snails are practically identical as noted by other people than Bequaert, with reticulata being less variable and slightly bigger. Like I said, the albopicta in the book in most case look like the reticulata I have, whereas the reticulata in the book are nearly always less marked. But I'd like to see more albopicta photos, particularly because these are black and white. I can't find any but Yuri's and one of Catherine's which is unconfirmed. I mean pictures confirmed by people who studied the Achatininae, because any captive picture is likely to be completely unreliable.
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 10:47:51 GMT
now that I think about it, stuhlmanni are quite similar to panthera, especially young ones. and that they can crossbreed supports this. Where are you getting your information? I mean, do you know of any stuhlmanni that are proven to be stuhlmanni? This is what I can't suss out, a lot of your information comes from seeing what you think are stuhlmanni and what you have been told are stuhlmanni but how do you know? I mean, no-one can tell me the columella colour of stuhlmanni. So not that much is known. I think someone gets a snail, and matches it inexpertly to whatever looks the most similar. If our stuhlmanni are panthera, which I am beginning to believe, it is no wonder they got described as stuhlmanni. They are small and slender and look very similar to real stuhlmanni pics, of which there are few. One possible redeeming factor for our stuhlmanni is that they have a flared lip in adulthood. So far I haven't seen any panthera with this, but I may be wrong, I need to sift through the entire panthera section . I know it is rare but possible in fulica, it may be the case that it is possible but if not, it could determine these are stuhlmanni. Either way, we have zero information on stuhlmanni to check our findings against. Do you see what I mean? What are you basing your judgements on?
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 10:59:39 GMT
Just found some real stuhlmanni pics (I forgot about the new shell pics on Achatinidae.com): There is a very faint hint of pink that could be too much red in the picture. The columella looks white with a hint of blue. None have a flared lip. But this isn't conclusive because they are pictures of only a few examples. I do admit that the shells of mine looks very like the ones above. Except the bright pink/purple columella which seems dodgy to me.
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 11:06:34 GMT
Another pic showing a white columella:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2005 12:41:00 GMT
no i just meant the captive stuhlmanni look a bit like panthera. im sorry i dont have a clever book all my information just comes from the hundreds of snail pictures on various websites. those achatinidae museum pictures are probably wild snails and most of those ones match up with the captive ones. to be honest most of us don't really worry about if some snails are mis-identified, we just like getting pretty species ;D i mean, my british snail book says there will ALWAYS be snails which are un-identifiable, because some species are so similar. us pet snail-owners can't be expected to positively identify every snail there is. maybe one day we'll get some answers but at the moment we just don't know everything. i mean people have only been keeping snails a few years.
|
|
LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
|
Post by LisaLQ on Dec 21, 2005 13:59:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by sezzy5889 on Dec 21, 2005 15:11:44 GMT
Yes my reti does too and so do Gabi's apart from the albino obviously btw how did we get from panthera to reticulata
|
|
LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
|
Post by LisaLQ on Dec 21, 2005 15:56:03 GMT
No idea *lol* ;D
|
|
gabi
Achatina tincta
Posts: 616
|
Post by gabi on Dec 21, 2005 19:57:42 GMT
LisaLQ and Sarah: Those reti´s you too have are not having albinotic genes in them, they are from Germany and as much as I know they never had contact with the breed from Vienna. Talking from my snailies from the petshop. Their heads look here in this pic´s way darker than in original. They have light-brown heads and eyestalks. My friend in vienna has gotten a few weeks ago adult reticulatas which have beige-orange shells and their bodies too have this colour. I am asking her for pics as she got for christmas a brand new camera. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 22:42:28 GMT
im sorry i dont have a clever book all my information just comes from the hundreds of snail pictures on various websites. those achatinidae museum pictures are probably wild snails and most of those ones match up with the captive ones. I'm not being arsey Mike, I'm just making the point that all of the hundreds of pictures on snails sites are useless for confirming ID because they are all based on someone being told completelty arbitrarily. And until recently it seems to me, most of the good ID points were anecdotal at best and not widely known. to be honest most of us don't really worry about if some snails are mis-identified, we just like getting pretty species ;D i mean, my british snail book says there will ALWAYS be snails which are un-identifiable, because some species are so similar. us pet snail-owners can't be expected to positively identify every snail there is. I agree, I just don't like the idea of someone propagating snails that aren't guaranteed as something they were told it is. It makes things worse and goes against the truth which is all I am after. I just made the point because you were suggesting that pictures of snails on sites could be more reliable than the malacologist who studied them that's all.
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 22:44:32 GMT
So in your book Paul, do albopictas have black heads? Because on all the piccies I've seen online, and even on Petsnails, albos dont have black heads. Well, you hit a good point. The book does not mention body colour at all for any species because they are all shell studies. Not one malacologist mentions anything other than shells that I have found. Also, I've yet to see a proven albopicta with body so we have nothing to compare against.
|
|
Arno
Archachatina puylaerti
Posts: 1,493
|
Post by Arno on Dec 21, 2005 22:53:19 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if albopicta and reticulata turn out to be either a variety of eachother or a subspecies.Both are roughly from the same area(Tanzania,Kenya,Zanzibar).So who knows what happened earlier.
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 23:00:38 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if albopicta and reticulata turn out to be either a variety of eachother or a subspecies.Both are roughly from the same area(Tanzania,Kenya,Zanzibar).So who knows what happened earlier. I agree and I also think that is what is hinted at.
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 21, 2005 23:14:37 GMT
Further to what I said to Mike, I realise that at the moment I'm the only one with the book because it is so difficult to obtain, I was very lucky to find the last copy Harvard had. I wish it was available in electronic form so we can all have a look, it'd make my life easier although we'd probably argue over all the details . Again, on my job list is to make this book available. If you can't buy it anymore and none are being scheduled to be reprinted I don't see any problem in copying the book or scanning/typing it, like I did with the Nisbet paper. I'd like to OCR it, I've nearly done Pilsbry's book, but I'm only up to page 90 of 394 correcting it, word by word. However, I think if Mead ever does release this publication he mentioned it will redefine a lot of the info in the book. Still a good source of visual data seeing as we can't all dissect a snail to find out what it is, nor would be want to. I mention all this, because I realise my post could be construed as "I've got a fancy book so shut-up" which isn't the case. After trying so hard to acquire the book, I realise how lucky we are to have a copy in this community as it is our only source of reliable info so I'm just promoting the affirmations made in it over anecdotal info that the hobby community has had to rely on.
|
|
|
Post by fatslug on Dec 22, 2005 0:48:24 GMT
Paul, is your book 'Studies in the Achatininae, a group of African land snails', by Bequaert J.C. ? Naturama in Palermo have a copy for sale, but it's about £80.
|
|
|
Post by Paul on Dec 22, 2005 3:42:18 GMT
|
|