Copper Tape?

[graemepryce]

Hello! I was wondering if anyone had ever used copper tape with GALS? Lots of gardening sites say it is a safe way to prevent them gaining access to things as they won't crawl over it. I was considering putting a strip around the top edge of my main tank to prevent my biggest GALS from falling from the ceiling and damaging themselves or any smaller snails below. It's not a problem yet but my Retic is getting to a size where he would definately have the weight to break his own shell if he fell the full distance onto another hard snail or a rock in the tank or something. I don't want to have to reduce the tank to just soil, food and cuttlefish, I think they would get bored, judging by the exploring all over everything they do now. Any info appreciated!

[pinkunicorn]

Have not tried but this sounds interesting. I always recommend copper to gardeners... perhaps I should try it too! No more giant slugs sliming about my poster frames on the wall in the early morning hours... I mean, it's cool to go on an adventure but it can be dangerous to crawl too far from the tank!

[shaydeesnail]

The tape would have to be very wide as snails can "jump" over things if they can stretch over it.

See the way this one has skipped over part of the ground?

[graemepryce]

Yeah I've noticed Cepaea's move around like that a lot but seen it less in GALS. If they wanted to make the effort to cross the tape to hang out bat - fashion for a while I wouldn't be too bothered but the stuff I saw was 1 and 1/4 inch wide so that aspersa above would still be on the tape!

The main thing I was wondering is if they don't like it because it harms them in some way or poisons them if they absorb it through their feet. I think I will get some and give it a whirl.

I'll post my results and see how it goes.

[pinkunicorn]

I have heard that copper fencing or similar is used in heliciculture to keep the snails within a restricted area, so judging by that I doubt it is dangerous to snails. Maybe it has something to do with static electricity and the slimy foot of the snail causing an irritant?

Edit: A copper slug tape sold on Amazon says it is indeed based on static.

[pinkunicorn]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZXETdJ4mw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here's a video starring an aspersa. I read a review mentioning "zapping a snail" and got a little worried. But this snail does not get zapped, just does not appear to like crawling on the tape.

[inky]

I found a comment saying this:

"Snails, slugs and other membranous invertebrates lack a skin structure that prevent diffusionary inflow of material into the body. So when the invertebrate makes contact with the copper, the toxin is immediately being absorbed into their body. Due to this, soil can become toxic to beneficial invertebrates (earthworms) from the runoff alone, which can increase the copper sulfate to toxic levels. Just letting people know, so they can be careful about where they position the copper."

I wouldn't use it, but it's up to you.

[pinkunicorn]

That sounds suspicious to be honest. It doesn't make any sense. What the author is saying is basically that snails absorb anything and everything into them through their skin, which is obviously untrue. They do have a mechanism to block, say, molecules bigger than n, among other things. It would be a major evolutionary disadvantage to absorb anything and everything. Second, copper sulphate is in fact used as a pesticide and thus liberally sprinkled around gardens in its pure form, which is bound to release far more copper sulphate in the soil than a piece of copper tape ever could. Judging by earthworms and molluscs not dying completely out as a result of all that copper sulphate pesticide use, I doubt the tape will cause them more harm. I would in fact advocate the tape use over pure copper sulphate because the overall soil damage from the tape is a fraction of what the pure stuff does. The amount of copper sulphate released by the tape is minute in the garden compared to all the copper walled buildings in the world, and in an indoor use much much less. Considering the snails actively avoid copper and don't spend their days sitting on it the exposure they get from unpreventable sources is going to be many times more than from the tape. The substrate you use could be a bigger source of exposure, there's no way to know if it's been treated with copper sulphate pesticide at some point during the past 50 years. It could be from an old farmed field converted to a source of "clean" potting soil etc. Every choice we make means assessing the possible risks, but often what sounds scary ends up being much less of a risk than the unknown everyday factors (compare fear of flying vs fear of driving a car to deaths in plane crashes per year vs deaths in car crashes per year). Here it's the risks of a snail escaping or getting into dangerous places (or what one's reason for using the tape would be) versus the chance of slight added exposure to copper sulphate, and everyone needs to consider which risks they would rather take.

Now don't get me wrong, my intention is not to pick on you by any means (though I can sometimes sound like that), and I think it's just good concerns are brought up. I just think the science behind the concern in that quote is not based on facts, but rather on a misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. And I want to correct that to hopefully prevent further misunderstandings. Just the same if anyone spots factual errors in what I write, I'd rather have myself corrected.

Edit: I started thinking of the actual formation process of copper sulphate. Copper sulphate just "getting absorbed" into a snail from contact with copper tape sounds weird, for how did the sulphate get there, what reaction made it? It isn't the snail and it doesn't appear just because copper is present, they're two different things. Wikipedia only speaks of the industrial processing by exposing copper to hot sulfuric acid. It occurs in nature as a few substances, too but is quite rare. Copper patina (the green stuff) could perhaps contain copper sulphate as it is formed as a reaction to many things, including sulphates, but patina is supposed to be extremely durable and non-reactive, as I understand. And that is just the patina, which the copper tape doesn't have.

Do we have any chemists on the forums to weigh in? I really got curious now under what conditions does plain copper form copper sulphate.

[graemepryce]

I agree PU, I don't want to seem dismissive but all the information I've seen suggests the tape gives off an electric charge similar to tooth fillings in contact with foil and the like. I have done a bit of research online since my original posting and I think I might get some, put it around the top of my 'isolation tank' and pop an aspersa in. If he looks okay after a few weeks I'll put it in my GALS communal tank and hopefully stop the big fella an his buddies from doing themselves an injury!

[pinkunicorn]

Copper is also antibacterial and antifungicial (is that how it's spelled?), it behaves like gold and silver, releasing water soluble ions (which also explains the static charge of course). I wonder if this is behind the copper sulphate misunderstanding? Copper overdose is indeed toxic although copper is also a necessary micronutrient, especially to snails since their blood is copper-based instead of iron-based like in humans (hemocyanin vs hemoglobin)... it doesn't sound plausible to get an overdose of copper this way from the tape. I don't know the RDA for snails but for humans it's about 1mg, whilst the tolerable intake is tenfold at 10mg a day. Toxicity is generally many times the tolerable level. I found a number of 30mg/kg for rats being lethal in the case of copper sulphate. 2mg/l copper is accepted level in drinking water in the UK, so in some areas the tap water used for snails forms a bigger exposure source if not the biggest. Hmmm you could reach the tolerable level by drinking a lot of water, if we disregard copper from food...

Anyway sorry I started rambling again. I think I will test the tape as well and report back how it works. If it doesn't then it's no use to add extra copper anywhere of course!