Tank worms!?

[shaydeesnail]

There appears many tiny worms crawling on the sides and lids of a few of my tanks.

I have found a few (confused, clearly) earthworms also climbing up the walls and onto the lid when there is condensation, so I feel there is a possibility that they are baby earthworms, a snail could have dragged an egg sack up the wall and it hatched there, as the earthworms breed and populate the tanks by themselves.

What I'm really worried about though, is the possibility that these worms are parasites. In one of the tanks where the worms have appeared, a lot of the snails have died. The others that have the worms are fine though. I'm worried about the possibility of me or my family being infected if these are parasites!

If anyone can identify these I'd be grateful!



















Thanks

[vallery]

Hi shaydeesnail,

I had a problem once with Teenie tiny little white worms crawling up the sides of one of my tanks before. whenever I misted the tank they would crawl up. Freaked me out. So I completely cleaned and sterilized everything and bathed the snails it took three tank cleanings and numerous snail baths and I have never had that problem since. I have no Idea what they were or where they came from.
vallery

[pinkunicorn]

Mentioned this in the other topic. I also found a few of these yesterday. Just one tank so far. I suspect them to be nematodes but not certain. Nematodes are bad for snails.

It's odd as I just changed the soil in this tank two nights ago. I used recycled sterilised soil, but the container had been outside and I did not resterilise it. Must have been contaminated somehow. Ugh, just remembered I used the same for my leopards and achatinas.... looks like I got some tank cleaning to do once again.

[shaydeesnail]

I put all my poorly snails into an empty clean tub containing only food. The snails were washed before they went in there to hopefully remove any worms.
A couple of worms have appeared in that tub today so I'm fairly sure that the worms are inside the snails :/
I now need to think of a way to get rid of the worms. Do different nematodes have different life spans? I think in order to fully cleanse the snails and the tanks it would take me at least a few days of soil sterilising and tank washing while also treating the snails- then I have to consider re-treatment to catch any eggs that were living in the snail at the time of treatment that would then hatch and reinfect the snail.
I've read that pumpkin seeds can be used- what about pumpkin seed oil? I'm not sure if the benefit is in the oil or the fibre of the seeds themselves.

[pinkunicorn]

Nematodes can be bought from gardening shops as a biological snail repellent. The only info I ever found on them was about being mean to snails and nothing about getting rid of them.

I've heard the pumpkin seed thing, but my snails don't like seeds so dunno if it works. I am suspicious about it, though, as I don't know the mechanism of action, is it the texture or a compound? I would like to know the science behind it.

[shaydeesnail]

Me too! There doesn't seem to be much information on why it apparently works in humans, and none about the snails.

The original snails that brought the worms with them are quite sick, and about 30 of them have died. Some with mantle collapse and others simply losing weight until death. Last night one of the snails died while not retracted into the shell and with the eyestalks partially out. One of the snails that's still alive has a very swollen tail and a white patch on one side of the body.

The snails in the other tanks that have the worms have yet to show any symptoms- these are larger snails but I don't know if this has anything to do with it. I fear that it's only a matter of time before they get sick, but I want to treat them before this happens.

I'm not sure what to do about the Cepaea snails that originally had the worms, they were wild caught this year. By the looks of things I think that if I can not treat them effectively they may all die. I'm not sure if it would be kinder to release them, and give them a shot in the wild. I'm not sure if they'll survive the winter though :S I'm not really sure what to do!

[vallery]

I would continue to bathe the snails and change the tank as I did. I bathed my snails using a strainer and whatever is on them poop or anything goes right through the strainer. You could also put them in a completely different tank with fresh sterilized tank items. When I had the worms I bathed my snails 2 to 3 times a day in the strainer to make sure there were no worms left. It did work. And I have not had worms again. And I also continue to bathe my little guys in a strainer. And do the same with any snails you had with your cepaeas.

[jembolina]

Oh dear, good luck with getting rid of those horrible worms. You must be so worried

Is there anything those worms eat other than things inside snails? If there is something maybe some could be coaxed out if something they like to eat is left in the snail tank.

I wish I knew how to help.

[shaydeesnail]

I've been watching closely to see if I can work out how the worms interact with the snails if they go near each other- They seem to ignore each other and I haven't actually seen any worms come out of the snails. But after putting the snails in a completely empty tub with only food and finding worms in there I'm pretty sure they're living in them.
Maybe the worms lay eggs in soil or around the sides of the tank in this case and when the snails eat them, they complete grow inside the snail before coming out to lay eggs, similar to human pinworm. Either way- I'm going to try making a pumpkin seed paste while keeping the snails in an empty container, and wiping away any poop as soon as it's done. I don't want to rush into doing it now and do a half-arsed job though- I'm going to wait til I have the time to do it thoroughly. I'm just worried that my other snails will end up in the same state as the Cepaea I feel so bad, I didn't even get time to bond with them before they started dying, and now I'm finding it quite hard to.

Thanks Vallery- I'm going to keep them and their tanks as clean as possible. I almost regret getting them the biggest tank I could find now lol!

[malacophile]

I've got a bunch of these in one of my slug containers. I'm certain they're some sort of nematode, but oddly, they don't seem to be harming the slugs, and in fact, don't seem to interact with them at all. They're all fat, happy and eating (and pooping) like pigs. Instead, they've been keeping the container spectacularly clean. They go around eating all of the slug poop. They're so good at it that I never have to wipe the thing out.

But now I'm wondering if I should be worried. Like some of you, the only info I could find on molluscs and nematodes has to do with pest control.

If anyone is worried that their snails/slugs are infected with parasites, I heartily recommend any variety of natural antiparasitic foods: raw ginger, garlic, turmeric, coconut (especially the oil), pumpkin seeds, pineapple (must be fresh!), radish, fennel seeds, cinnamon, cloves nutmeg, hot peppers, peppercorns. Raw sauerkraut, kimchee or similar fermented food should also work, plus give them a probiotic boost.

[tsrebel]

I have these too, and as you say, malacophile, they keep the tank clean by eating all the snail's poo. I'm thinking they can't be nematodes because they don't bother the snails. And I'm not getting rid of them because I like my tanks to be small eco systems.

[malacophile]

Assuming that everyone here has the same worms, and considering the possibility that they may not be infecting the slugs/snails, I have a theory as to how they may be re-introduced into freshly-cleaned enclosures.

While these things are eating my slugs' poo, the slugs just crawl around, often right over the worms. I've never seen the worms on my slugs, coming out of them or deliberately going near them. But I wonder if the worms' eggs, or even some of the young, might be getting caught on the slug slime. If the slime is persistent enough, bathing might not even be enough to dislodge them.

[speedygonzales]

I just found worms like these crawling all over my snails today My Achatina achatinas have been acting very sick for a week after i brought in half rotten oak leaves from outside for them to hide in (I am so sorry about that now, I'm a total newb..) The snails have been all closed up since the day after and excreting slime as if under attack. Only I did not see anything visibly wrong in the habitat until today
I have bathed all the snails, changed them into a completely new habitat, brought nothing of the original interior along, new dirt, and boiled all the food bowls etc for more than twenty minutes. I hope the snails will pull through. The slimy little worms seemed to be interested only in the snails I am so scared for my snails now

[starry]

They aren't earthworms...but do look like roundworm. I would try ground pumpkin seed and mixed with food.

[Tomáš Protiva]

These worms are pretty normal in tanks and they are not parasitic. They do not harm the snails. They are living in the soil and eating on poos and other leftovers. Actually too much cleaning can harm your snails.
Of course I presume that we have all the similar species of worms and it is possible that someone has some parasitic one but if you have some parasitic one it is not probable that you will see these worms in the soil and outside snails body.

[feelahthetigress]

Mar 11, 2014 7:41:53 GMT Tomáš Protiva said:

These worms are pretty normal in tanks and they are not parasitic. They do not harm the snails. They are living in the soil and eating on poos and other leftovers. Actually too much cleaning can harm your snails.
Of course I presume that we have all the similar species of worms and it is possible that someone has some parasitic one but if you have some parasitic one it is not probable that you will see these worms in the soil and outside snails body.

Hey everyone, I know this thread is a bit old, but I have a similar situation so I thought I'd chime in. I had a fungus gnat infestation several months ago, and I stupidly decided to treat it by using Gnatrol. The gnatrol itself wasn't a stupid idea, what the problem was is that it requires repeated drenching with water/gnatrol solution, so I flooded the tnak! Yes, I'm an idiot sometimes. Right after I did that, the tank turned sour and smelly (of course, because I made it into a bog). Then those white worms appeared in large numbers. I've figured out what they are! They are pot worms (aka white worms). They are a relative of the red wiggler (and other earthworms), and are named "pot worms" because they often are found in flower pots' soil (and of course, that's because the soil often comes from compost, and they are composting worms). The reason I hadn't seen them before is that normally their numbers are small, but when I made the tank into a bog it turned the whole substrate rotten and acidic, and apparently, pot worms love acidic conditions.

I've done some research on them, and I'm pretty sure that's what I've got since they often are found in worm bins with red wigglers (the type of worm I have for poo cleaning duty) and they often have outbreaks when large bits of acidic food is added (or if you change the tank conditions like I did). I've observed them, and they don't seem to directly interact with my snails (the snails sometimes slime over them, and they do seem a bit attracted to the moisture though). For the most part, the worms seem to love eating rotting fruits and veggies, and snail poo. They do not eat the fruit/veggie until it is rotting though. From my research, this is consistent with pot worms as they share a very similar diet of rotting food with red wigglers since both are composting worms (although the pot worm can tolerate more acidic food than the red wiggler). I've heard from the worm composting sites that the pot worms can out-compete the red wigglers for food, but I've not noticed a reduction of my red wiggler population (which appear to be fat and healthy).

I do not technically know if they bother my snails or not, but I wouldn't think they would. I have suffered some snail deaths though which I at first feared was due to the worms, but I'm not so sure that's even true since I'm fairly sure of what they are. I've had a snail die every couple months here and there, and all the ones that died were in the "medium" size range (about 2cm). They appeared to otherwise be active, eating, and healthy, and did not appear to suffer deep retraction or sealing themselves or things of that nature. The snails I had found had just died one day - out of the blue. In fact, I'm pretty sure I may have had one or two die before the worms showed up. The other snails appear to be perfectly healthy and do not appear underweight or inactive, and they eat regularly. I'm feeding them regularly and they have calcium, so I'm not really sure what's wrong. Arguably though, I haven't really had a huge number of deaths "all at once" or anything, so it's hard to say what's going on (it's possible they just had weak genes - these snails all came from the same litter and I've been raising them from infancy). If anyone has any ideas, then let me know.

Oh, and as for the pot worms, while I don't think they are actively harmful, I may try to get rid of them in the future, if only because I find them somewhat unsightly, and just in case they really are eating up rotten food that could go to my red wigglers. I'm not really sure how I'll get rid of them, but I'm thinking the only way is to remove and bathe all my snails, remove some red wigglers and wash them very carefully in a strainer to get all the dirt off of them (they won't like that at all), remove my plants and wash every bit of dirt off the root balls to get any pot worms hiding in there, then get rid of all the old soil, sterilize the tank fully, then replace with fresh soil, replant my plants, put my snails back in, and hope for the best. Obviously, this would be quite the undertaking, and right now I'm absolutely swamped with schoolwork, so it might have to wait for the end of the semester...

P.S. - Oh, just a disclaimer, just because that's what I potentially have doesn't mean that no one in this thread has a parasitic worm problem or that we are all even talking about the same species here. Just sayin'.

Edit Update: Well, I just randomly had two more snails die this morning, so it may be time to enact my total tank cleansing plan soon, just in case those worms really are bothering/harming my snails in some way...

[feelahthetigress]

Update guys, It's been awhile since this thread was active, but I have bad news. My earlier optimistic view on the white worms has changed. Almost all of snails have died and almost all of my red wigglers had died as well. I was forced to do a complete tank cleaning and re-starting. I removed the plants and soaked them underwater for an hour in soapy water (hoping to drown any bugs/unwanted white worms). I removed the few remaining snails and have quarantined them to a large jar. I removed all old soil and threw it out, and soaked the whole tank in bleach water for a couple hours. Then I took some organic potting soil, sterilized it in the oven, and replanted the tank with the plants. The few red wigglers I was able to save were give very thorough baths in water (which they did not like) to ensure that they were clean. I kept them for a few days in a separate container (and I didn't see anymore of those white worms) so I placed them back in the big tank with some wet shredded paper to eat. Hopefully they'll be able to rebuild their population. As for the few remaining snails...I bathed them throughly before placing them in the jar, and unfortunately, I spotted one of those white worms again today in the jar (none in the large tank though). Unfortunately, I fear the few remaining snails are infested with this worm (not really sure if it's a parasite or not, but I've had awful effects recently regardless). I'm strongly considering just euthanizing the few remaining sickly snails, and starting fresh with some newly purchased snails (haven't bought them yet, but I'm considering it). Of course, there's no real guarantee any new snails will be pest-free, but I can try...

Edit: I've decided to try to save the remaining snails, if possible. I'll just keep bathing them and keeping them quarantined in the jar to see if I can be rid of those white worms. If not, well...

[feelahthetigress]

Another update: I saved the remaining snails, and didn't see any more of those white worms. The remaining snails seemed fine (although I had one die on me about a week ago - it seemed like an isolated incident), and everything was golden...until today. Those stupid white worms are back! Not sure how, but I spotted a few of them on the glass today. Not sure what to do now, except wait and see if they get worse... It's like no matter what I do, I can't win! Sigh...

[etana]

What a worrying thread. I once had small white worms eating away rotten sweet peppers and strawberries in my Cepaea/Arianta tank. I promptly threw them away, washed the food dishes and haven't seen them since.

I think I read somewhere that small wild snails are more resistant to parasitic worms than big African snails that don't have the same worms in their natural habitat...? Can anyone back this up?

Just wondering because I'm about to get my first Gals and my little wild caught A & C snails are happy, active & breeding in a not-so-clean tank to which I add food from the outside (washed of course but not sterile) - could it be a hazard to the Gals?

Edit: I won't have them in the same space due to size difference, but I've been considering getting a wide tank where I'd have a wall separating the small & big snails. Maybe not a good idea after all as disease/parasites that the C and A snails don't mind would get a bit too easily to the other side.

[Zorst]

I periodically get these uninvited guests also, I'm pretty convinced that they come in in some of the food even though I wash the food thoroughly before feeding it to the snails. If I find any I always change remove all the snails and then wash the peat with boiling water before putting outside, as I don't want to infect any of the wild snail population.

I then give the snails repeated warm green tea baths and keep them in a container without any peat just basic food like cabbage, sweet potato and carrot, as well as a piece of cuttle fish . I keep these baths up about twice daily for a good week, and clean out the tank there kept in totally once a day and scold it out with boiling water.

These white worms or nematodes defiantly eat the snails inside their shells, Ive actually pulled them out of snails shells very carefully. And had several busily feeding on the live snail, I did manage to save that garden snail n it lived for about a year after but it never really thrived again.

The latest infestation of them was a few weeks back in only one tank which was full of very tiny baby Arianta's. I lost over half the tank of snails, which was gutting, these snails were so small they had to be given repeated washing under running water in a sieve before having their green tea baths. The amount of white worms I washed off was unbelievable. Trying to find all these snails in the peat n then washing them repeatedly proved to be a very time consuming job due to there size and numbers.

Thankfully they were only isolated to this particular tank which is kept in a different building to the main pet snails I have. These Arianta's are kept in a climate and temp similar to that of there release site, as these are part of a breeding program to help stop them dieing out over here. Hence being in outside in one of the stables. There in a sealed in tank so nothing can get in and there food stuff though similar to the main snails isn't mixed.

I suspect these white worms came in on a cabbage leaf. Ive burnt that cabbage just in case but I hate to see those awful white worms in any tank.

I always take the eggs out of the main adults tanks but now even these I'm now washing before putting them in clean fresh peat so to further prevent any possibilities of accidental cross contamination once they have hatched.

All my other tanks of snails are thankfully clear of those dreaded white worms, which is why I'm convinced its down to the food source that bought them in. I now wash all foods in colloidal silver water ( I make my own)as this seems the only thing that kills these worms bar boiling water, Bleach doesn't kill them they swim around in it n crawl off).

I then rinse/ scold the food in fresh boiling mineral water ( again I have my own water supply and spring which is tested regularly). I'm hoping this may finally solve how these things get in my tanks. I'll let you all know if they turn up again after this clean out and new set of precautions.

Zorst

[feelahthetigress]

Zorst, the idea that these worms might come in on food squicks me out immensely...Namely because that's the same cabbage/sweet potato/tomatoes, etc. that I'm eating! Please don't tell me my entire grocery store supply of vegetables is contaminated by parasitic madness! Ugh, that's horrible...

[Zorst]

Didn't do me much good either when i thought about it initially but then again my system is 1/ a lot bigger n able to handle more without side effects n 2/ I also eat a lot of other foods that Snails wouldn't normally eat that would kill any parasitic overload. For a start onions n garlic and chilli n Black walnut oil as well as wormwood tea a couple of times a year. Good for health but also good for getting rid of any unwelcome guests. I just really make sure I wash all foods really well, and mostly the foods I eat are cooked so there fore you get rid of the worry of anything like that anyway.

I think you'll be grand but as for the snails as i previously wrote I'm now a lot stricter with cleaning foods etc and double checking tanks but also no cross contaminating them.

Zorst

[feelahthetigress]

You know, it's also possible that humans may not be suspceptable to this parasite (if it indeed comes in on common food).

[etana]

I think the worm I saw in my own tank was a species that eats only rotting veg, because I haven't seen a single one since the one short visit, and even then I didn't see them anywhere near a snail at all. Better safe than sorry though, I'll be very careful when my first GALS moves in. :/

Also I think that snail digestive system is so much simpler than humans, it allows for different parasites. I think our stomach acid would kill some parasite eggs/larva that can live in snails. I'm not a biologist though. Again better safe than sorry.