Hole under the Shell

[Baku]

My snail is dying. And this is gonna be a long text 'cause I just want to get it all said.

Yeasterday evening I went to pick up my A. fulica to give him a bath, when his shell actually cracked under my finger! He now has a wide (2x2 cm?) opening under his shell. (on the part which rests on top of the snail's 'tail') Examining the damage I saw the edges of the break are paper thin, almost transparent! He has had a smaller crack on the same spot a couple of months ago which never healed fully, but that one didn't seem to bother him.

This time, though, it's a 'bit' worse I could see eggs inside him and something I suppose was his lung moving slightly up and down. I can't believe he's still producing eggs while his shell's in that condition

I don't think there's any hope of recovery, but I'd like to hear your opinion on what caused this. I had to do something to the poor snail yesterday so I remover the loose pieces of shell and taped a piece of plastic bag on the hole, so nothing would fall out of him :I I know now that maybe I should have washed the showing membrane, but I doubt it would have helped in this situation anyway..

After giving the 'first-aid' I put him in a box with a towel soaked in warm water. I wasn't sure if I should have set him on his back to keep any pressure away from the broken part, but it felt cruel so I put him on his feet anyway :/ He first went forward like nothing had happened, but after wrestling with me for a while (I was trying to stop him from climbing the wall :') ) he settled down and hasn't moved since Though he Has managed to wiggle himself off the towel so it's impossible to lift him up anymore..

I managed to get him to eat some fishfood from my fingertip, but his radula felt really soft/weak! Wasn't the usual tickling scrape. No wonder he hasn't been eating anything un-smashed for ages.. Could also be he hasn't gotten enough calcium because of this :I Must be something wrong with either his radula or his neck muscles

The image below is Vilppu at 2010.(i hope u can see it?) He got some kind of wound on his neck (probably caused by another snail during mating?) but it healed well and all that remains is a dark patch on the neck. Still, there could be some damage left that makes eating difficult :C

But the thing i suspect most are the mites he's carrying. They are these tiny grey things, maybe baby fruit-flies, that seem to love the sepia schale and reproduce massively if the schale isn't washed regularly. Since they live on the snail, too, could be they're chipping the shell bit by bit? What do you think?

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[jembolina]

Pinkunicorn has mentioned previously in another thread that she uses a medical tape/film called Opsite Flexifilm to repair her snails broken shells with good results. She mentions it in this thread with some tips on how to apply it; petsnails.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=problems&action=display&thread=12424

My snails barely touch their cuttlefish, they much prefer crushed eggshells to get their calcium and they all eat tonnes of it. Maybe your snail would find it easier to eat too if he's having trouble rasping properly. What I do is remove the membrane from the inside of the egg shell (there are 2 layers of membrane, I only really worry about the first layer) before crushing it. Be mindful that removing the membrane makes the shell a lot weaker so it's best to wash the outside before removing it. I then crush the shell with a little water in a mortar and pestle for about 20 minutes. It's easy if you do it while watching TV though for a giant snail a slightly courser mix would probably be okay. My helix aspersas all gulp it down.

If he'll only eat soft foods have you tried crushing up his regular favourites into a paste? My snails' favourite seems to be raw sweet potato, carrot, pumpkin seeds, apple and some eggshell paste ground up together into a soft paste. I've read about others slightly steaming veggies first too for snails who aren't eating normally, though keep in mind that some nutrients will be lost doing this.

I have no idea what to do about the mites, I think I recall someone mentioning a bath in green tea helped. I don't think they sound like they're fruit flies, fruit fly eggs produce maggots, which then turn into pupae (which look like this www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20F148.jpg) before finally resulting in a fruit fly. Maybe just being away from the substrate will help control numbers.

I really hope your snail pulls through, it must be so awful for you seeing him like this. I hope others here can be of more help to you than I am. Good luck.

[Baku]

Thanks for answering. Unfortunately though, all the shops are closed due to Finland's independence day, so I can't get that tape or the green tea : ( I do have some lemon flavoured green tea but I don't think that would do as lemon's not good for snails..
I also greatly doubt I could get him to release his grip on his terrarium, as his slime has always been tough. I've never witnessed him falling /:I

oh and seems the pests aren't fruit-flies afterall :/ Some thread described a pest quite matching to these and said they were the early state of some tiny black fly-like mosquito. Could be I'm remembering all wrong though.. Whatever they are, I definitely don't like them.

[pinkunicorn]

You can get Flexifix from pharmacies. Got any Yliopiston Apteekki in your city? They should be open. There's also other similar films sold, I think Tegaderm would do just as well. The pharmacist can tell you which ones are equivalent. Though I would think he can make it until tomorrow. I hope!

Ja hyvää itsenäisyyspäivää!

(I only read this quickly now, will take better look in a few hoursin case there's anything else I could think of)

[Baku]

Thanks :') Actually, a small miracle happen yesterday evening; Vilppu woke up and actually ate some of the eggshell-paste I had made for him. Voluntarily! That gave me some hope, though he didn't eat any food I offered him. During the night he has dug himself under the towel, so maybe he wants to repair the shell in peace? I have no idea if I should go force him up and start poking the brake again He doesn't seem very infected this far but I'm still afraid to see what's going on under the tape-and-plastic.. :I
I also managed to get a peek of the downside and the tape had really settled on the hole, leaving a slight dent for me to see.

Also, if I do decide to re-fix him, what material do I put right into contact with the snails insides? Should i cover the hole with a slightly larger piece of very-clean eggshell or plastic or what? And is it really safe to wash the showing membrane with green tea and what if some of it is left there, between the shell and the insides, after rinsing with clean water. Will it mold or something? :S

At least going to try feeding him again today...

[jembolina]

I think the thing I read about green tea was to do with getting rid of parasites, I wouldn't put his exposed area in it. Water would probably be safest.

Do you have the piece of shell that broke off him, or is it in many pieces? If it's a single section that came off I'd put that back over the hole if you decide to retape him. I'm not sure what would be the next best option.

I'm so glad he's had some eggshell paste. Keep mixing a tiny bit of water with it when it dries out to make it as easy as possible for him to eat it (he'll just have to gulp it without needing to rasp).

[pinkunicorn]

Good to hear he's eating something! If the tape you used has fixed itself on the shell that's really good. You basically want it to function as a spare shell to protect his internal organs while he fixes the problem from the inside. My little baby patient's healing took a few weeks until I could feel solid shell under the tape. I've not removed it yet though, will do it as he has grown a little (but before he grows shell in top of the tape, like the shell whorls would do in aspersas...)

[Baku]

Yay I've got a good feeling about this Hopefully for a reason..
I stopped at the pharmacy today and got a sheet of Tegaderm film (for 2,40€) And then called my friend over to help with the operation. We carefully removed the old bandage-thingy and found that Vilppu had already closed the hole with a thin layer of shell. So now we'll just hope no germs were trapped inside xI At least he was really healthy-looking and active. So much so that we had to resort to poking blueberry on his mouth to keep him from wiggling too much. (he hates the taste :'))

After cleaning the shell as best we dared we put a piece of eggshell on the weak spot for protection and then applied pieces of Tegaderm to keep it in place. The Tegaderm was really kinda hard to use at first but finally my friend got the hang of it Just to be on the safe side, we still added a loop of 'freezer tape' to finish it off. Before we could release the poor snail we still had to give him a quick bath of green tea, which he didn't seem to appreciate much <:'3

That might have sounded easy but the operation really took us almost an hour xD

When Vilppu finally got back to his box, he got a tiny bite of 'carrot and potato' -baby food, and has since been trying to dig through the corner of the box ... Let's all keep our thumbs up so he just might pull through this (though on the other hand, better not get the hopes too high up in case something does go wrong..!)

[Baku]

Aww! What an awesome experience I had yesterday ;D I 'bottlefed' my snail with a bit of milk. I could start doing that every day if milk was more suitable for snails..
Some people say snails shouldn't get any milk as they wouldn't get it in the wild either, but I thought a bit of it would be fine in this situation, since milk is high in calcium and vitamin-D (which they say helps the calcium to absorb..?) And on top of that it has some nutririous value, too : )

Vilppu has also moved around a bit and eaten some crushed egg-shell and paste made of chalk-powder.
Oh, and it is Ok to use a chalk-powder meant for horses, right? I got some from a friend, it was called (badly translated from finnish) Feed-chalk. (rehu-kalkki)

Sadly, though, he hasn't eaten any of his usual favourite foods :I I tried sweet potato and babyfood, he won't even eat fishfood flakes.. I could try finding some radish for him but if he won't eat fish flakes then what are the chances he'll eat radish





A couple of pics which Tinypic decided to resize randomly...

[jembolina]

I'm so happy to see that he's still eating his calcium. Chalk is fine so long as it's 100% natural chalk without any additives. I'm not sure about milk, I'd stick to other sources of calcium to be on the safe side. Milk has a very low calcium content compared to other sources like cuttlefish bone, oyster shell, eggshell and limestone anyway.

Did you try mushing up the sweet potato? If you bash it with something hard a bunch of times (e.g. with a pestle in a mortar) it'll crush and easily become mushy when raw.

Your snail looks so cute by the way! I like how he's bulldozed both of his food bowls at once.

[Baku]

Yeah I'm not planning on giving him milk regularly. Only a few drops if he refuses to eat anything else :)
I did mush the sweet potato. I grated it with the smallest edge, so it was pretty much as mushy as it gets :P Still wasn't good enough back then but when i tried it again two days ago he did have a bite of it. He's also been eating the baby food and some fishflakes, as well as calcium :D

He's also pooed a lot more than usually x'3 Most of it is white or bright orange but there's also an occassional black and reaally sticky bit :o Hope thats not anything to worry over?

And thanks! At least his cuteness makes up for him being so picky xP

Oh and he also layed eggs for me to freeze -___- 143 of them, though many were very small and one didn't have a shell. When I went to pick them up they were making a weird snapping voice now and then. I've noticed it before, too. wonder why they do that o.o

[shaydeesnail]

Try making some "snail milk"
I've not actually tried this but I bet if you were to blend a banana, some calcium/chalk powder and just enough water so that it is thick enough to dip your finger in and feed him, I bet he'd go for that, if he likes banana anyway!

[Baku]

Awww x'D Just might try that! He's usually not a big fan of banana but you can never know for sure unless you try

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Thought I'd report how he's doing now I'll add photos when I'm not too lazy to.
So, we changed his eggshell-tape thing some two weeks ago, and found out the shell hadn't gotten any better :C The weak spot had only changed color a bit, but otherwise looked just as thin as before.. After the tape-change Vilppu has been quite inactive. He only tends to wake up every other day, but at least he eats then. We kinda ran out of tegaderm while taping him so I hope he isn't like this because of the bandage being too loose or anything. Probably not.
I also had to buy him new calsium powder. This time its meant for dogs and includes some percents of cornstarch, which i assume is okay since snails can eat corn anyway. This stuff isn't nearly as sticky as the previous stuff, so I hope he'll like it