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Post by etana on Oct 18, 2014 9:17:08 GMT
I hope your snails are ok Claith. Zorst As do I of course. Indeed! Who needs TV anymore, this is much better than those time limited nature documentaries and the soapiest soap operas (both of which I used to watch before I got snails).
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Oct 18, 2014 9:59:02 GMT
LOL! The snails are much more interesting n entertaining than the tv.
Zorst
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Post by muddydragon on Oct 18, 2014 11:06:13 GMT
that's really interesting. it's a shame you can't really tell if any offspring comes of it
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Post by cliath on Oct 18, 2014 21:48:07 GMT
The snails are fine, I think it was a once off. A red cepaea was sleeping on the wall of the tank (one of yours Zorst) and my juvenile yellow slimed over and stood stock still, eyestalks straight up. Well he stood like this for about 15 minuets until the red started to wake. The red went past and the yellow moved forward quickly and caused the red to shoot into his shell. I think this was a bite, but the red snail was fine after. I haven't had anymore arguments so far.
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Oct 18, 2014 22:14:00 GMT
Ahh they could be just sorting out whose boss, glad the red snail was fine though. Hopefully its just a one off.
Zorst
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Post by cliath on Oct 18, 2014 22:39:44 GMT
Yeah, they were just in a new tank too. So I guess they were unsettled.
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Oct 18, 2014 23:18:43 GMT
That could def be part of it.
Zorst
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Post by etana on Oct 19, 2014 6:23:55 GMT
Interesting story, Cliath. Especially how the little one waited to get to scare the red one.
My Rudolf, the stepped-on-but-recovered is the only snail of mine who has a scarred face despite the very angry fights I've described. I guess a living snail's skin is difficult to break with a radula meant for veg & old meat.
Do snails have a social hierarchy?
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Oct 19, 2014 8:58:50 GMT
Yeah they sure do have a social hierarchy, that's one of the first things I noticed with them as I have to constantly be aware of it with horses and other animals its become 2nd nature to me to be aware of it with all things. Snails defiantly do and they will put any other snail who's being to bold in there place. I had one Gal who used to kind of threaten n try to take the food of another smaller Gal.
The original Zorst being the biggest snail got fed up of this n gave the threatening Gal a real aggressive thump with his head. Ok it was in slow motion but it was aggressive as snails go and was complete with an open mouth. He then turned his shell on that Gal n kinda pushed it outta the way.
As for the Gal that was being bullied who we later named Flower well Zorst became her body guard and buddy along with his other buddy Gary, the aggressive Gal was pushed out of the bunch for a while until it learnt some manors. Zorst solved the problem until I could get another tank and a mate for the aggressive Gal. There now happy together in there own tank and Zorst n Flower stayed together with Gary until they each slimed off to snaily heaven together, when Flower and Gary died Zorst went down hill very quickly afterwards as he missed them both.
He wouldn't eat after Gary went and we had to really nurse him, he did eventually perk up n really stuck to Flower but after she went he just decided it was his time to go. From what I could gather he was pretty old for a snail who had a bad start in life.
Zorst
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Post by etana on Oct 19, 2014 11:57:13 GMT
Wow, thanks so much, Zorst (also if you feel like it, I'd like to know why he had a rough start to life). In that light I understand many of the snaily interactions I've seen. Such as, after Rudolf had rubbed his coarse, heavy shell in the faces of many other snails and also blocked their ways with it, one time he was sleeping in a hole in the ground and a bunch of snails had piled up on him, just sitting there or sleeping, holding him down. He avoided burrowing for weeks!
Could also explain why Lemon was so calm after I'd separated her and put her back - the others could have eventually excluded her, too, to teach her to behave!
Very, very interesting. Snails are terribly overlooked as social animals, it seems.
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Post by cliath on Oct 19, 2014 14:19:02 GMT
Very touching story, Zorst.
I agree that snails are very social, not many people appreciate this though...
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Oct 19, 2014 14:34:33 GMT
Zorst and Gary came here as rejects from the pet trade with about 40 other snails, they were taken on as rescues and then sold on for very little to good homes. They came in very underweight n pretty sick and there shells weren't great so they had previously had a lack of calcium, they had only been fed on lettuce prior to there rescue. Funny both snails refused to ever eat lettuce again the whole time I had them and as its nutritionally low I don't feed it now anyway.
They were very small as well due to there bad start when I got them they were well over a year old, any how with good food and the right conditions and a good constant calcium source they did slowly recover there bad start and began to grow. Gary never grow as much as Zorst did but he got to a pretty good size considering things. Zorst grew to be the biggest snail we had here until he died. The Tiger snail was still only young at that time.
I suspect that Rudolf really got a telling off from the rest of your snails if they did that to him, hopefully he learnt his lesson from the experience. And yes that's very likely regarding Lemon.
Snail hierarchy is very similar to Horse and Deer herd hierarchy they both work a lot on touch and body posturing as they are both very tactile, as opposed to the likes of say cattle who though stay in a herd don't interact so much. Horses like snails will spend many hours mutually touching and grooming each other. Even snails who aren't mating I've watch will spend hours just touch each other with there eye stalks n feelers. Just my observations.
Zorst
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Post by etana on Oct 20, 2014 8:36:49 GMT
Thanks for telling the story. I just can't understand why people buy these exotic snails who grow big and live long, without even finding out what their basic needs are. Finding a random pretty snail outside and not knowing right away what to do with it is more easily understood, but to buy and keep something like a beautiful Tiger snail for a whole year without food variety and calcium...?! That makes me both angry and sad. I'm so glad you were able to help Zorst and the other snails and they had good rest of their lives with you. I haven't seen Rudolf push his shell into anyone's face after they piled up on him. He started sleeping upside down in the plastic strawberry & pear shaped hiding places, not burrowing to sleep even once till it was hibernation time. Now he's hidden himself so well, I didn't come across him when I last did a more thorough clean up and found all my other sleeping, sealed in adult Arianta. He may have found a way to go under the climbing tree or something, so even other snails can't find him. I just hope he emerges in the spring because he's such a character. My boyfriend supported the separating of Lemon by saying that it can be done to aquarium fish if they get aggressive, and it helps. This is all very fascinating. I've observed as well that snails touch each other a lot without it being related to mating. They also greet each other with eye stalk touching, adult snails tell babies "hey, I'm here" by gentle pats on the little one's shell, they play by piling up, falling over, piling up again and falling over again (especially my Cepaea do this, and they look super happy). I also think there are some small, hard to see facial expressions that involve mouth movement and wrinkling up the middle of the face. This would deserve some real research, with some real statistical math to show how likely these things are to be random. I'm studying statistics myself, but I don't have quite enough snails, or broad enough knowledge of biology research. Hmmmm... Maybe some day!
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Post by etana on Oct 20, 2014 15:31:55 GMT
Btw Zorst, who are the snails in your avatar?
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Post by cliath on Oct 20, 2014 16:18:58 GMT
Poor Zorst and Gary. I wish I had the opportunity to save snails. It would be so rewarding.
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Oct 20, 2014 19:22:01 GMT
The snails in my avatar are Zorst the Fulica at the bottom and Seilide the Tiger Snail on top this was there fav game climbing on top of each other and practicing the look at me I can fly pose.
After Gary went Zorst kinda ended up with Seilide as a rough around n play side kick and Flower as his quiet friend. That antics these two used to get up to often had me in stitches lol.
I'm lucky here as its a big old farm house so I've the room to keep all these snails. My daughters are the one's who started the snail rescue by bringing me home injured snails they had found at school or friends to help or repair injured shells etc. Then we were given some more GAlS who weren't in a great state and it kinda grew from there. Currently we have 9 snail tanks and one snail hospital tank.
With in reason I make a point of excepting any snail that comes our way and will try and help it even if the best n kindest thing to do is the honest thing by it.
If I can re-home some snails from time to time I try to but only to people who I think and feel will give them good homes and who know about snails and how to care for them. I don't go out of my way to sell snails but will do so from time to time if I have a lot here or have some young. I will ask something for them as this go's back into helping keep the other snails that remain here.
Zorst
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Post by etana on Oct 21, 2014 16:47:01 GMT
Aw Zorst... I want to hug you. I'm sure snail rescue is both a rewarding and a rough job. All the ones who can't be helped, vs. the ones who get better and thrive with you, it sure is not boring, at least. To mention the snails that were the original subject of this thread, well, things are completely boring again. Lemon is sleeping tightly, all glued up to the wall, and both Frank and Steve can be seen sliming to her side to sleep as well, then they slime off again. Frank's mantle is very puffy, just like snail mantles often are after mating. I wish I knew who else he may have been with lately. Today I saw Frank meet a tiny little newborn baby snail, so tiny that he didn't have a skin colour yet so I don't know if it was Cepaea or Arianta, and he was very careful to safely slime around the baby.
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Post by cliath on Oct 21, 2014 16:59:10 GMT
I'm glad things have settled down for you , etana. I also live in a big farm house, but I fill it with cats rather than snails! I foster a lot of cats. It's great fun really
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mangoandlemon
Achatina tincta
Animals are not a choice for me. They are a lifestyle!
Posts: 671
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Post by mangoandlemon on Oct 21, 2014 19:44:35 GMT
I didn't no snails had anger issues.
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Post by etana on Oct 22, 2014 7:30:26 GMT
Yeah mangoandlemon, I didn't either till I saw mine fight! As far as I know it's not common, but I believe snails like any other animal have the potential to feel any basic emotion and act on it.
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mangoandlemon
Achatina tincta
Animals are not a choice for me. They are a lifestyle!
Posts: 671
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Post by mangoandlemon on Oct 22, 2014 14:54:56 GMT
lol
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Post by etana on Oct 26, 2014 8:39:30 GMT
I've started to regret not taking pictures (or a video!) of the raging snails, because it'd have been good evidence that snails DO feel strong emotions. Damnit. If I ever see it again, I'll first use my camera and then separate them to cool off. Also, in a different thread, there have been talk of Cepaea species sometimes carrying strange genes that cause for example C. nemoralis to grow a white shell lip. I've started to think that it's possible my Lemon and Steve are actually this kind of snails, and that's why the soap opera with Frank happened at all. As far as I understood, their other features should resemble the C. nemoralis, and also their whorl forming and shell shape are a little different to C. hortensis. Lemon especially is huge for a C. hortensis, which only increases my interest! I'll be documenting these three snails in this thread. They sleep most of the time now, but my sweet Lemon heard my thoughts and snailed out of her hide just earlier today, so now I have very good photos of her. I need Frank and Steve to also come out and pose for me. I must find out if I actually witnessed inter-species mating or if I just own some freak snails with strange genes! Both options sound pretty cool.
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Post by etana on Oct 26, 2014 10:18:30 GMT
Awww my snails must be psychic, they'd all been sleeping a lot lately but exactly now they all came out. <3 I gave them some slices of organic red sweet potato, to make up for me grabbing them. First there's Lemon with her shiny white foot and weird eye: Her shiny shininess has a very obviously not dark shell lip. Then there's Frank. I'll begin with an aperture photo. It's very easy to see he has a dark lip. OM NOM NOM! Odd thing is, Frank used to be the colour of red sweet potato, but he's very recently and very quickly turned yellow. Could be many reasons for it, but I've increased the number of calcium sources in the tank, and made them easier to find. See yet another, more informative picture of Frank: I think it's interesting how the last whorl takes a turn "down" right before the aperture. The same happens with Lemon's last whorl, only more dramatically than in Frank's. Then there's Steve. His shell is just like Lemon's, complete with the aforementioned turn of the last whorl, but otherwisely he's altogether a lot smaller, has a darker foot, and of course symmetrical eyes. So yellow, from the first baby whorls to the yellow end. You can't really tell it from any pictures I took, but Steve's stripe rhythm is exactly the same as Lemon's, and the shells are exactly as bright yellow, too. Then one to show his body color & shell shape, and you can also sort of see the aperture: And just so nobody is left in doubt, here's one more of Steve's aperture. Sorry it's out of focus. Maybe I'll try later to get all three on my hand at once, unless the snaily social situation gets too weird for them. I just want to show their size differences. Roughly put, Frank and Steve are the same size, and Lemon is the biggest. Anyway, if you ignore the dark/light shell lip formation, do their body, shell & whorl shape look more like C. hortensis or C. nemoralis to you guys? Or are more pictures needed?
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Post by etana on Oct 26, 2014 10:36:56 GMT
WAAH this is so buggy! Trying to get it perfect right now is proving itself very hard. edit: goodness that took forever. I desperately need a coffee break.
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mangoandlemon
Achatina tincta
Animals are not a choice for me. They are a lifestyle!
Posts: 671
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Post by mangoandlemon on Oct 26, 2014 12:59:26 GMT
lol! Glad i can see the pictures of Lemon. She's beautiful!
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