Alternate lip colouration in Cepaea

[muddydragon]

Oct 24, 2014 7:23:17 GMT etana said:

Oct 23, 2014 21:37:53 GMT muddydragon said:

occasionally you can get a member of one species with the other coloured lip just to confuse the situation...

Hey, can you tell me more about this? Thanks in advance!

It's just something i've picked up now and again. There's a nie little article here: www.conchsoc.org/MolluscWorld18/13 which includes a nice reference and another paper here talking about a white lip gene in nemoralis: hhttp://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v22/n3/pdf/hdy196749a.pdf

This mentions dark lips in C. hortensis: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1210497/

There's a lot of publications on Ceapea and their genetics if you went more indepth and did some searching you could probably find a lot more.

evidently there are other ways to distinguish between C. hortensis and C. nemoralis other than lip-colour annoyingly i can't find a good article/guide on this (the conchological society page is missing and my searches haven't come up with much)

There's a little bit about it here for C. hortensis: www.arkive.org/white-lipped-banded-snail/cepaea-hortensis/

[etana]

Thanks, Muddydragon. This makes me wonder if I have some of these in my tank. It would perhaps offer one explanation to how my Lemon, who is supposed to be a very big and fat C. hortensis, has managed to mate with both (alleged) C. hortensis and C. nemoralis snails. 

[muddydragon]

i had been wondering that. it just annoys me i haven't been able to find anything really good on IDing between the two (admittedly i haven't done a hard search)

Edit: Most of what i can find says C. hortensis are typically smaller are more round than C. nemoralis. but that internally they are quite different.

apparently you can get white lipped C. nemoralis on sand-dunes in western ireland.

There's a nice little species distribution map for ireland here and here: www.habitas.org.uk/molluscireland/species.asp?ID=53 www.habitas.org.uk/molluscireland/species.asp?ID=54 (i know you're not from ireland etna, i just thought they were interesting, especially since i think Zorst's come from irish sanddunes?)

[etana]

That is interesting. I think you mean there are white lipped C. nemoralis on the sand dunes right?

If anything more clear about the IDing comes up that doesn't require dissecting, I'm ready to take close up photos of the three of my snails in question so we can determine what exactly they are.

[muddydragon]

Oct 24, 2014 15:20:49 GMT etana said:

That is interesting. I think you mean there are white lipped C. nemoralis on the sand dunes right?

If anything more clear about the IDing comes up that doesn't require dissecting, I'm ready to take close up photos of the three of my snails in question so we can determine what exactly they are.

Yes i do i always have trouble getting the colour the right way round as my brain links nemoralis (woodland) with nivalis (snow-like or white) so i have to constantly remind myself to go the opposite way to what i think i'll edit my post

And of course i'll post anything i find and hopefully others will too

[etana]

Oct 24, 2014 16:07:32 GMT muddydragon said:

Oct 24, 2014 15:20:49 GMT etana said:

That is interesting. I think you mean there are white lipped C. nemoralis on the sand dunes right?

If anything more clear about the IDing comes up that doesn't require dissecting, I'm ready to take close up photos of the three of my snails in question so we can determine what exactly they are.

Yes i do i always have trouble getting the colour the right way round as my brain links nemoralis (woodland) with nivalis (snow-like or white) so i have to constantly remind myself to go the opposite way to what i think i'll edit my post

And of course i'll post anything i find and hopefully others will too

All right  

After my last comment, I was looking closely at Lemon and Steve, the alleged C. hortensis. While Lemon is much fatter than Steve, I noticed they're very similarly striped. So similarly, they could in fact have the same parents, but they must be from different egg clutches as Lemon was a small young snail when I found her, while Steve hasn't grown during the whole time. They were originally found from the same area, too.

I was thinking that if Lemon and Steve are related, it becomes much less unlikely that I'd happen to have two snails with the same weird gene. This is all still speculation though, and they plus Frank have since gone hiding to sleep, too. I will take pictures when they wake up, because I'm now itching to compare their shell shapes & whorl forming. 

ETA: I don't want to hijack this thread any further, so I'll put my observations into my Snail Anger/Soap Opera thread ( petsnails.proboards.com/thread/14344/snail-anger-real-update-opera ).

[muddydragon]

I've created a new thread with the lip colour related posts so people feel free to discuss it further here without hijacking slinky's thread

[Cashell]

Thanks for the links. This thread reminds me of the times when I used to keep a Cepaea nemoralis that had pale stripes and a pale brown lip.

[etana]

Darnit for hibernation season, most of mine are very disinterested in posing for photos so this whole finding out who my snails really are is advancing at snail's pace, heh eh eh. Thanks again for creating this thread though.

[etana]

Just a boring update that I'm waiting eagerly for spring, when my snails become active again and I can take pics of all of them without making them wake up. I'm still very intrigued by this whole alternative lip colour thing, and I wonder how many snails I actually have who aren't what they seem!

[mangoandlemon]

Thanks for the update I'm pretty much doing the same.

[Cashell]

I personally can't wait until spring so I can go back to my cepaea hot spot and catch some vividly coloured snails!

[mangoandlemon]

Your lucky you have colorful cepaeas ? Where I live there hard to find. I've found one with a pale shell and a light brown stripe. I might have to find someone with babies...

[mangoandlemon]

Sorry for all the i i s!