What species is he?? (pictures included)

[chriss]

Hello everybody, I hope you are all alright!
I am almost new to the world of terrestrial snails. I got an African land snail few days ago and tried to identify it since (I have searched through internet a lot), but I couldn't be sure what species it is, my guess is either Achatina fulica or Achatina achatina, Im not sure, maybe he is something else. I'll attach some pictures I hope they'll help. If more pictures needed I'll take more.
Thank you for helping me out.
I hope it is not the wrong place to post my question. I'm new.



Having a mix of carrot, cucumber, and lettuce



Is it a V? It is not always apparent by the way.



He wasn't happy with coir so I took most of it out.

So what species do you think he is?
and, does he need hibernation to have a better health?

My regards

[etana]

Hi all. I will upload the pics and post them here once Chriss sends them to me. At that point others can help out in case I don't recognise the species.

(Edit to clarify: originally the pics didn't show up and I agreed to help out.)

[chriss]

Nov 4, 2016 22:23:23 GMT etana said:

Hi all. I will upload the pics and post them here once Chriss sends them to me. At that point others can help out in case I don't recognise the species.

Thank you, you are an angel!
I can see the pictures, I don't know why they don't show up,
Here are the links:
s26.postimg.org/d1kniiszt/photo_2016_11_04_07_12_01.jpg

s26.postimg.org/pvipbv6fd/photo_2016_11_04_07_11_48.jpg

s26.postimg.org/mc1tj6a15/photo_2016_11_04_07_11_29.jpg

s26.postimg.org/3kzw90fgp/photo_2016_11_04_07_11_58.jpg


It's a bit bigger than it seems here:
s26.postimg.org/5qu73iix5/photo_2016_11_04_07_12_05.jpg



I just emailed them as well.

[etana]

The pics are in my email, I will put them here tomorrow. I actually am not entirely sure of the species, so this will be interesting!

[chriss]

Yes, it is really interesting Etana,
Thank you for your concerns, I just updated the photoes and sent more
My regards.
Chriss

[etana]

Actually the photos are showing for me now, heh. BUT in case they go down again, I uploaded them. They are here:

Click to view the Photobucket folder with the photos

Also here is a pic that hopefully shows enough of his columella, as Criss couldn't get the snail to go fully in (bless those guys who are too curious to):




So help us! wolf? Liguus? Thank you so much if you can give us a hand here.

[chriss]

Thank you Etana for helping me out, and uploading my photos.
Yes he is very curious, lol. and wont go inside his shell even when I try to gently.
And thank you Wolf and Helixpomatia to helping on identifying my pal.
We may finally get to know him more.

By the way I found some pictures Of baby snails for sail on another website that looks much like my snail and they listed it as A. fulica. Here is the link so you could take a look:

www.snails4you.com/snails-for-sale.html

in this page you could see some snails as called Achatina fulica that really look like mine, the was no individual link so I could send the exact snail's link.

by the way it is somehow different with A. fulica. so lets ses what species he is?!

[chriss]

Update! its almost a week that I got him and his flesh is getting a little darker and growing!

I also found two articles that has pictures that almost match!
one is in Russian and has two species named: Achatina fulica hamilei and achatina fulica sinistrosa. Achatina fulica hamilei matches more!
Here is the link:

www.ahatin.ru/ru/achatina/achatina-fulica


and the second is here:
supersnails.proboards.com/thread/773
It has Achatina fulica hamilei and  the logo looks just like petsnails.proboards, don't know if related?
so what do you think guys?
Etana? they look the same don't they?

[etana]

Hmm! Indeed some snails on that Russian page look quite alike to yours at the shell. However the proper identification needs the tail and columella, as their shell patterns do vary a lot.
I am not very familiar with all the different fulica mentioned on the Russian page - this is the first time I hear of some of them. (Not that I mind learning, but I wish I could be of more help.)
If by any chance your snail goes fully into his shell, check if his columella is any distinct colour. It looks white in the pic where it almost shows, but I could be wrong.

[etana]

Oh also, regarding hibernation: GALS don't know of snow and freezing weather so they don't exactly hibernate, but he might aestivate instead. If you are sure that the conditions are ok and he's in stable health, it's best to allow him some rest if he so chooses. Mine sometimes sleep for weeks, they tend to wake up if I move them during maintenance, but they go back to sleep very quick so it's no use trying to keep them awake.

[chriss]

Nov 6, 2016 22:17:02 GMT etana said:

Hmm! Indeed some snails on that Russian page look quite alike to yours at the shell. However the proper identification needs the tail and columella, as their shell patterns do vary a lot.
I am not very familiar with all the different fulica mentioned on the Russian page - this is the first time I hear of some of them. (Not that I mind learning, but I wish I could be of more help.)
If by any chance your snail goes fully into his shell, check if his columella is any distinct colour. It looks white in the pic where it almost shows, but I could be wrong.

Yes you are right, and what I want is proper identification,
I tried to get him in his shell but he really wouldn't get inside, he is far more curious, but I tried to push the flesh on his columella gently, and what I got was a thin strip of white line, and I took a picture, here you can see it:


and the link to the picture too:
postimg.org/image/5r9eieedh/

It may seem a bit reddish but it isn't, its due to light conditions and the camera.
I hope it helps.

[chriss]

Nov 6, 2016 22:25:22 GMT etana said:

Oh also, regarding hibernation: GALS don't know of snow and freezing weather so they don't exactly hibernate, but he might aestivate instead. If you are sure that the conditions are ok and he's in stable health, it's best to allow him some rest if he so chooses. Mine sometimes sleep for weeks, they tend to wake up if I move them during maintenance, but they go back to sleep very quick so it's no use trying to keep them awake.

Oh, I see, thank you. My room temperature is about 24 degrees Celsius but it drops sometime during the night, but he is active most of the time.
So don't I need to make conditions right for him to go to aestivation?
If the temperature and humidity stays this way all over the year, is that OK?
I got a common tree frog to, Hyla arborea, and I just let her go hibernating and she already is, I thought maybe he needs it too? somehow, to make the condition right to hibernate or aestivation?
So you said no need to hibernate, and I have a feeling that aestivation is not something I help him go into?
My regards,
Chriss

[etana]

Yeah there's no need to induce the aestivation, he'll go if he wants. In the wild, aestivation is also a way to survive dry seasons and lack of food, so sometimes poor husbandry makes snails aestivate in captivity, but sometimes even if there's plenty of food and humidity, they just want some rest. My locally wild caught snails actually hibernate in their warm tank when winter comes. I also have one giant snail who seals in after stressful situations, then comes out some days later good as new lol.

24-ish is ok if he's fulica. Many other snails need extra heating on top of that, so here's hoping for more comments!

[wolf]

Hello chriss,
I'm so sorry, but I don't know much about the Achatinidae. So I can make only a vague guess.

I think you are right in supposing A. fulica or A. achatina. If the columella is white, then it's probably A. fulica (you can carefully use a brush to move the mantle tissue a little bit away from the columella). But: there is some subspecies/form of Achatina achatina which has a white columella, too, it's called Achatina achatina togoensis.
I don't know if the "V" and its central ridge is pronounced enough to be valid.

It should be possible to differenciate the two species by taking a close look on the structure of the shell. J.C. Bequaert (1950) writes for A. achatina:
„…………This subsutural area is covered with coarse vertical folds and as a rule set off by a strong impressed line on the penultimate and body-whorl………….
The succeeding whorls show typically a decussate sculpture of elongate welts, best developed on the penultimate whorl and gradually weaker on the body-whorl, particularly below the periphery; a few traces only of the sculpture remain on the last portion of the body-whorl, behind the outer lip. The welts are produced by the decussation of moderately strong vertical growth-striae by weak or superficial spiral engraved lines, placed rather far apart and at irregular intervals.“
Perhaps you can use a magnifying glass to see details of the sculpture.

By the way: Achatina fulica sinistrosa surely isn't a valid subspecies of A. fulica, but only a simple genetic variant which is sinistral (= "left-handed") instead of dextral (= "right-handed", which is the normal situation). Probably only a single gene is responsible for the direction of coiling.

The differences between Achatina fulica fulica and the subspecies Achatina fulica hamillei are a little bit tricky. An adult A. fulica hamillei should have a slightly broader shell and the brown streaks tend to fuse on the last whorl. Furthermore, there are some slight differences in shell sculpture.

Kind regards: wolf






 

[etana]

Thanks Wolf!
I am sure it's not A. achatina (Tiger snail). The skin, face, and tail don't match. See this:
landsnails.org/images/Achatina%20achatina%20GB/Achatina%20achatina_GB_01big.jpg
You can see the tail ridge that Criss's guy doesn't have. I have many young Tiger snails and the ridge is very visible from a small size.

He could be a very interestingly coloured fulica I guess, but I need to study the giant snails more!

[wolf]

Hi etana,
you wrote: "I have many young Tiger snails and the ridge is very visible from a small size."
Thank you very much, that helps a lot (I've never had Achatina achatina).
Have a good time: wolf

[chriss]

Nov 7, 2016 10:57:01 GMT etana said:

Yeah there's no need to induce the aestivation, he'll go if he wants. In the wild, aestivation is also a way to survive dry seasons and lack of food, so sometimes poor husbandry makes snails aestivate in captivity, but sometimes even if there's plenty of food and humidity, they just want some rest. My locally wild caught snails actually hibernate in their warm tank when winter comes. I also have one giant snail who seals in after stressful situations, then comes out some days later good as new lol.

24-ish is ok if he's fulica. Many other snails need extra heating on top of that, so here's hoping for more comments!

Oh thank you Etana, it helps a lot
I just read some internet article suggesting they may live less in captivity due to not going to hibernation, I thougt maybe I should induce it somehow. So what about that??
Thanks a lot Etana for your information.

[chriss]

Nov 7, 2016 12:18:26 GMT wolf said:

Hello chriss,
I'm so sorry, but I don't know much about the Achatinidae. So I can make only a vague guess.

I think you are right in supposing A. fulica or A. achatina. If the columella is white, then it's probably A. fulica (you can carefully use a brush to move the mantle tissue a little bit away from the columella). But: there is some subspecies/form of Achatina achatina which has a white columella, too, it's called Achatina achatina togoensis.
I don't know if the "V" and its central ridge is pronounced enough to be valid.

It should be possible to differenciate the two species by taking a close look on the structure of the shell. J.C. Bequaert (1950) writes for A. achatina:
„…………This subsutural area is covered with coarse vertical folds and as a rule set off by a strong impressed line on the penultimate and body-whorl………….
The succeeding whorls show typically a decussate sculpture of elongate welts, best developed on the penultimate whorl and gradually weaker on the body-whorl, particularly below the periphery; a few traces only of the sculpture remain on the last portion of the body-whorl, behind the outer lip. The welts are produced by the decussation of moderately strong vertical growth-striae by weak or superficial spiral engraved lines, placed rather far apart and at irregular intervals.“
Perhaps you can use a magnifying glass to see details of the sculpture.

By the way: Achatina fulica sinistrosa surely isn't a valid subspecies of A. fulica, but only a simple genetic variant which is sinistral (= "left-handed") instead of dextral (= "right-handed", which is the normal situation). Probably only a single gene is responsible for the direction of coiling.

The differences between Achatina fulica fulica and the subspecies Achatina fulica hamillei are a little bit tricky. An adult A. fulica hamillei should have a slightly broader shell and the brown streaks tend to fuse on the last whorl. Furthermore, there are some slight differences in shell sculpture.

Kind regards: wolf






 

Hi Wolf
Thanks for your reply and joining us on identifying my pal,
You guesses are far from vague, they are very enlightening indeed.
yes I tried and pushed the mantle tissue so I could see the white color,
the V shape is not always apparent but it is visible sometimes,
I will try to see if the shell structure has the futures you have mentioned from that article to see if he has it.
Thank you for your information about subspecies, it helped a lot.
If you may stay with us until we get what species he is.
My regards
Chriss

[chriss]

Nov 7, 2016 12:56:22 GMT etana said:

Thanks Wolf!
I am sure it's not A. achatina (Tiger snail). The skin, face, and tail don't match. See this:
landsnails.org/images/Achatina%20achatina%20GB/Achatina%20achatina_GB_01big.jpg
You can see the tail ridge that Criss's guy doesn't have. I have many young Tiger snails and the ridge is very visible from a small size.

He could be a very interestingly coloured fulica I guess, but I need to study the giant snails more!

I think the face dont match, to, but dont have much Idea about tail and skin, actually I think you are right about skin and tail, too.
I'm eager to know exactly what species he is, If an A. fulica, achatina or something else? Interesting!

-Chriss

[etana]

I'll get you a pic of my big Tiger snail's tail if he wakes up tonight at some humanly hour, lol (he's lazy and will often move for just a couple hours at night). You'll see it's not like your snail's tail at all. The "v" you are seeing is a muscle, not a property of the skin as it is with the snails for whom it is mentioned for distinction. 

Nov 7, 2016 15:35:44 GMT chriss said:

Nov 7, 2016 10:57:01 GMT etana said:

Yeah there's no need to induce the aestivation, he'll go if he wants. In the wild, aestivation is also a way to survive dry seasons and lack of food, so sometimes poor husbandry makes snails aestivate in captivity, but sometimes even if there's plenty of food and humidity, they just want some rest. My locally wild caught snails actually hibernate in their warm tank when winter comes. I also have one giant snail who seals in after stressful situations, then comes out some days later good as new lol.

24-ish is ok if he's fulica. Many other snails need extra heating on top of that, so here's hoping for more comments!

Oh thank you Etana, it helps a lot
I just read some internet article suggesting they may live less in captivity due to not going to hibernation, I thougt maybe I should induce it somehow. So what about that??
Thanks a lot Etana for your information.

Well yes, if they are allowed their rest as undisturbed as possible, they will live longer. My understanding is that this is especially true with local wild caught snails for whom it is natural to hibernate through the winter. Being awakened from aestivation/hibernation is stressful, and stress shortens anyone's life, for human and for snail - but I personally wouldn't starve my snails, or dry up their tanks, to make them seal in because that is stressful as well. Many of mine do it on their own anyway despite all the nice stuff in the tank, and then I just try not to wake them up.

[chriss]

Yes Etana that's right, that's a muscle indeed, yes the pattern you mentioned is visible on the picture you sent to show the achatina achatina, it must be interesting how your lazy snail looks, lol.
Yes you are right having them to go to aevistation seems to be risky, and not waking them up when sleeping I think is the best just like you said,
Chriss

[chriss]

Dear wolf:
"This subsutural area is covered with coarse vertical folds and as a rule set off by a strong impressed line on the penultimate and body-whorl………….
The succeeding whorls show typically a decussate sculpture of elongate welts, best developed on the penultimate whorl and gradually weaker on the body-whorl, particularly below the periphery; a few traces only of the sculpture remain on the last portion of the body-whorl, behind the outer lip. The welts are produced by the decussation of moderately strong vertical growth-striae by weak or superficial spiral engraved lines, placed rather far apart and at irregular intervals.“

Read more: petsnails.proboards.com/thread/16170/species-pictures-included#ixzz4PLl59qSA


I think it is so comparative and needs trained eyes and some experience with different species of GALS,
But thanks a million...
Chriss

[chriss]

So besides identification going on, with normal proper care, how long may my pal live?
and how big he may become if fulica or tiger?

[etana]

Lol he is a very good snail, he was my fastest when he was a baby, and now he's something else hahah. He's on my hand right now as I caught him trying to very secretly dig a tunnel to the food dish (he is very big so he's hardly a secret snail). I'll get a pic of his tail when he lets me, I asked him about it and he bubbled lol.

With proper care your snail may live 2-10 years, hard to say but if he gets over puberty he has chances to live years

Fulica grow something like 7-14 cm shells.

Tiger snails get much bigger, my biggest one is getting too big for my hand but def still growing.

[etana]

All right, click the link below to meet the tail of my Gaius (Achatina achatina).  He was very reluctant to show any of it but you get the idea. 

drive.google.com/file/d/0B1DqRdEXnKOpODdSbVdRMlVBVTA/view?usp=sharing