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Post by assechan on Sept 1, 2020 21:46:37 GMT
So I posted before about my garden snail's weakness problem of struggling to carry around her shell with her. I fed her some mushed scrambled eggs that she absolutely loved so I could give her some protein and hopefully she gets better. She seems to be active and eats fine, well, except for today that she ignored her apple but did see her eat a couple days ago so maybe she's full. When she sleeps, her front and back are fully exposed, just having her eyes retracted, thought maybe it could just be to have excess moisture and doesn't need to preserve water so isn't going in her shell..although it could be due to a scary sight I saw today.
I wanted to take her out so she can get a bit of sun so I let her crawl on my hand and as she was doing so, she struggled even more to move around my hand, and would detach and fall over to a side as her shell seems even heavier to her. And then I noticed her mantle has a big tear or is detaching from her...that scares me a lot, bubbles come out of it often too. It seems to be a very hard task for her to move, even more so to turn. Then saw a green ooze came out of the tear/detached mantle..I don't know if it was my already huge fear but it smelled a bit odd...is it blood..?
I really really don't want to lose her...I love her SO much and want her to live a happy, long life..before she had a smaller, plastic terrarium that she didn't move too much in, so I changed her a couple weeks ago to a proper glass one, with coconut substrate that she loved immediately, a decoration that serves as shelter, a stick and a couple rocks. As soon as I moved her there, she was having the time of her life, but after climbing onto the decoration, she had an accident, where her shell completely twisted to the wrong direction, and she seemed to "faint" and fall from it, I managed to catch her on my hand gently, then she came to her senses and kept exploring. Climbing on the tall walls also makes her shell hang too low..to avoid her getting hurt further, I temporarily confined her with a plastic cover on her terrarium so she doesn't explore too much and have another accident. Now even crawling on the substrate is very hard..please help!!
Here are some pictures of her mantle tear/detach, her shell hanging to a side, and how much of her body is exposed due to her shell falling behind ![]()
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EDIT: Thank you for the help, but sadly, she passed away..she was a great snail, my first one, and I'll never forget her..Rest in piece my Chochi
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Post by pasi9 on Sept 1, 2020 23:48:30 GMT
It looks kind of like mantle collapse to me, but I've never dealt with this so hopefully someone with more experience sees your post.
If it is mantle collapse, I've read you should try keeping them in a shallow container and keeping it more humid than normal, to prevent drying out. Occasionally place them on top of food so they don't have to crawl far for it.
Good luck <3
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Post by assechan on Sept 2, 2020 4:18:24 GMT
I do keep her moistened and her substrate is really good at keeping the environment humid. And been looking more into it and does seem like mantle collapse...this breaks my heart..she struggles to breathe and has been for so long now...she seems so active though and did eat a couple of days ago as I said, except for today because she won't touch the fresh mashed boiled egg I gave her, she loves it yet she avoids it now at all times...
I also had to go through a very nerve racking experience, she went to climb for some reason and her shell was hanging TOO low, so I had to take the plastic container out which was very hard to do and caused her shell to move a bit as she was upside down...I hope it didn't make her issue worse...I moved it so she was sitting horizontally, and after a lot of waiting, she finally crawled onto my hand, then made her crawl onto her food dish but she avoided it again..
I really don't know what to do..I don't think I'm capable of euthanize her and that seems to be what most people do in these cases..but in some they do recover..should I wait and see if she eats? I read that they struggle a lot to eat too which she had no issues with before, maybe today her mantle got worse and is making her not want to eat..
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Post by pasi9 on Sept 2, 2020 12:54:08 GMT
I'm sorry this is happening.
In my opinion, there's no right or wrong option regarding euthanasia in this situation. It's possible he could recover, but the odds aren't in his favour and he may suffer for a while beforehand.
That said, I know that if I had a chance of recovery I would be willing to suffer for a while. It's a tough decision.
If I were in your situation, I would probably keep trying to save him. He's still moving around, and even healthy snails don't eat for a few days at a time.
However if you decide to euthanise, lots of snail owners put them in the fridge for a while to knock them unconscious, then put them in the freezer which kills them.
I've also heard placing them in a shallow dish of diluted clove oil works. But I'd research that before you try it.
Hopefully someone with more experience is able to weigh in on this topic soon.
Good luck <3
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daniele
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 245
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Post by daniele on Sept 3, 2020 17:26:44 GMT
I do not see any mantle tear nor any mantle collapse. There is the collar that is not attaching properly to the foot, but this is not a lethal symptom in itself! Is this snail very old? If she is, then the only thing you can do is to make obstacles easier for her, and she will go on with her life happily, similar conception like how would you help an old human to deambulate better, in this case you can give her some steps to ease some climbings and some slides in order to make obstacle less steep..
If she is young, it may depend (as I've been told by the vet when I took there one snail with the same problem), from a bad calcium assimilation; in my case the reason was that she was living in a plastic box, and the plastic completely captured all the uvb rays, even when some sun rays were arriving! Other reasons may be obesity, or even the opposite, exteme thinness, but this doesn't seem the case!
Another reason can be weakness, in that case you need to investigate more to understand what is it due to!
But yes absolutely go on taking care of her, whenever I experienced this problem with my snails, they always recovered!
PS: the real mantle tear or mantle collapse, would be shown where the mantle attach to the shell, not where it attach to the body.. you can search in the forum and find many pics
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Post by assechan on Sept 4, 2020 3:16:46 GMT
I do not see any mantle tear nor any mantle collapse. There is the collar that is not attaching properly to the foot, but this is not a lethal symptom in itself! Is this snail very old? If she is, then the only thing you can do is to make obstacles easier for her, and she will go on with her life happily, similar conception like how would you help an old human to deambulate better, in this case you can give her some steps to ease some climbings and some slides in order to make obstacle less steep.. If she is young, it may depend (as I've been told by the vet when I took there one snail with the same problem), from a bad calcium assimilation; in my case the reason was that she was living in a plastic box, and the plastic completely captured all the uvb rays, even when some sun rays were arriving! Other reasons may be obesity, or even the opposite, exteme thinness, but this doesn't seem the case! Another reason can be weakness, in that case you need to investigate more to understand what is it due to! But yes absolutely go on taking care of her, whenever I experienced this problem with my snails, they always recovered! PS: the real mantle tear or mantle collapse, would be shown where the mantle attach to the shell, not where it attach to the body.. you can search in the forum and find many pics Thank you SO much!!! that is relieving to read!! right now she struggles to climb and move around on her substrate as her shell seems heavy for her. A lot of bubbles keep coming out of that opening, not her breathing hole but the one shown in the pics, also smells odd? she has laways been odorless, and the other day as I said that green ooze came out, is it an infection? Well it's good it's not mantle collapse..but she does struggle to breathe as her shell falls to the sides, especially when she sleeps as she can't go into her shell fully. I've been helping her by gently picking her from under so I don't pull her shell and make it so she's in a position that she can breathe better. Maybe she overused her muscle after doing too much moving and crawling in her new habitat, after all she has always been a lazy snail. |
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daniele
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 245
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Post by daniele on Sept 6, 2020 21:42:34 GMT
I'm sorry for the late reply.. Bubbles are a sign of stress usually.. Abt the odd smell I would worry a bit instead, and the green ooze i don't know.. Do you have a pic of the ooze? Is your snail very old? I would consider to search for a vet opinion, since if it really is an infection it will maybe need some specific cares... And strange smell may indicate an infection actually.. But first make sure that the smell is really coming out of the snail, and not from other rotting stuff in its environment
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Post by assechan on Sept 7, 2020 2:48:32 GMT
I'm sorry for the late reply.. Bubbles are a sign of stress usually.. Abt the odd smell I would worry a bit instead, and the green ooze i don't know.. Do you have a pic of the ooze? Is your snail very old? I would consider to search for a vet opinion, since if it really is an infection it will maybe need some specific cares... And strange smell may indicate an infection actually.. But first make sure that the smell is really coming out of the snail, and not from other rotting stuff in its environment That's okay..and thank you for everything..sadly she passed away today..I really did everything I could and I could tell yesterday she wasn't feeling well..still had hopes she could make it but..she has always been a bit puffier than her shell since the day I adopted her, and felt warm to the touch and heavy..but today I found her completely retracted, stiff, no weight in her shell at all, like she completely lost all moisture in just a few hours, even tho her environment has always been well hydrated.
May she rest in peace..she was my first snail and made me feel even greater love for these creatures..she was even named after a nickname my mom gives me, as I relate to these animals a lot and as silly as this might sound, I felt a very strong connection, so strong I could see part of myself in her. |
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Post by etana on Sept 7, 2020 7:37:42 GMT
Sorry to hear about your loss assechan. I just wanted to say that you're not sounding silly. One of the strangest things for me about getting into snail keeping was finding myself feeling the connection after honestly expecting not to. It was like actually understanding for the first time (and not just reading about it in biology class) that every living thing has more in common with each other than they have differences. Not every snail keeper feels it so personally, and that's perfectly fine too, but if you do, cherish the experience.  |
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Post by morningcoffee on Sept 7, 2020 8:22:24 GMT
May she rest in peace..she was my first snail and made me feel even greater love for these creatures..she was even named after a nickname my mom gives me, as I relate to these animals a lot and as silly as this might sound, I felt a very strong connection, so strong I could see part of myself in her. Sorry for your loss. Unfortunately I think it's likely this problem was due to old age and there was nothing you could have done. Snail for sure had a very long and happy life with you. |
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daniele
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 245
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Post by daniele on Sept 7, 2020 10:52:13 GMT
I'm deeply sorry for your loss... I can understand your feeling toward the little guy very well, and deeply regret to have replied you so late (although since the problem was old age, there was nothing you could do).
Etana is right in my opinion, they have so much more in common with us than we may think at first, and I think this is the reason why many people really fall in love with their snails after the big surprise of having something that is more like a friend, like a common pet, than a decoration like for example a fish inside an aquarium!
I just spent the whole summer in taking care of a little snail that suffered of an oviduct prolapse, followed by a severe inflamation and mouth swelling and I don't even know what else.. I went to the vet dozens of times, and spent awake every single night (excluding those in which she was sleeping) for three months in order to feed her with a siringe, used like a baby bottle, from which she had learn how to drink the shakes I used to make for her... Her loss was really harder than I could ever imagine...a kind of tragedy! So I can guess how sad you may feel...
I think that since you took care of her well and took your best efforts, she surely felt your love and lived happily!!!
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Post by pasi9 on Sept 7, 2020 12:31:24 GMT
I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like she was very loved and well cared for, I'm sure she knew how lucky she was to be with you.
And like the others have said, it's not silly at all. I didn't know how attached I'd become to my snails when I started, but they're special little creatures.
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Post by assechan on Sept 8, 2020 5:52:47 GMT
Thank you everyone for the kind comments...it has been very very hard, it's still something I'll never get used to, to see her new terrarium empty..and back when I'd have both of my snails on a side of the kitchen in plastic habitats, and I'd see them there every day sliming around and eating lettuce. It's a sight I'll never forget, just seeing them being their cute selves and having them crawl on my hand, I'll miss that very much..Chochi was very special and still is, I saved her from drying out in a very hot summer day after my mom said she found her and I didn't give up till she could come out, being able to eat, move around, kiss my finger while others' she'd hide from..I'm glad I could give her a second chance and to give her almost 3 more years of life.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have connected so strongly to what anyone would think of a primitive, simple creature that can't feel emotion..but the way she looked at me, only recognized my hand as friendly and wouldn't want to get off, I felt very deeply. They are very special creatures and I do not regret to have taken care of them. Thank you again everyone and I wish you all the best in your lives for you and your slimy babies.
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