Achatina and Archachatina

[brgwnth]

according to Moonboots Archachatina and Achatina cannot have babies.

is there any evidence to support this?

best regards,

Taz ;D

[Kevin]

They are separate genus's. Also, with Achatina, and Archachatina species theres usually a big difference in the number of eggs laid, size of the eggs, and time it takes for them to hatch. Achatina iredalei also wouldnt be able to hybridise with any other Achatina species, as they are livebearers. Snails in the subgenus Lissachatina (like Achatina fulica) also shouldnt be able to hybridise with true Achatina species (like Achatina achatina.)

[moonboots]

i was right for once! woop!!

[Paul]

Jun 16, 2008 22:20:57 GMT Kevin said:

Achatina iredalei also wouldnt be able to hybridise with any other Achatina species, as they are livebearers.

I just wanted to clarify that I don't think this is the case, in that I don't think the feature of livebearing would be a biological barrier. Snails can hold eggs internally and wait for the best time to lay. We see this with hatching times in some cases being as low as 24 hours. The eggs have developed for longer internally. Achatina zebra, also known for their ovoviparity can also lay the eggs, further indicating the lack of major biological difference. If iredalei did manage to hybridise I think some of the resulting offspring would have a predisposition to lay and some would have a predisposition to hatch internally depending on what genes they inherit.

It would be interesting to see some actual results in this crossbreeding area. The trouble is with self-fertilisation being a possibility the only way to know for sure that offspring were hybrids would be through dissection and study of the vans deferens unless... two physically distinct specimens were bred, so the resulting offspring would be obviously sporting characterstics of both. As the specimens would have to be separated from other snails and kept together from a young age, any experiment of this nature would be a slow one.

Determining the result of a fulica x immaculata pairing would be much more difficult than a reticulata x immaculata pairing but unfortunately probably more likely because of similarity (I'm guessing here based on outward appearance, it could well be the case that reticulata are more similar sexually. Either way, you get the point). I was once told of a clutch of A. achatina x A. fulica crossbreeds but based on my subsequent discovery that beyond forums like this one most people easily mistake one species for the other, I have no faith that there was any truth in it.

I've been kind of hoping that someone would happen on this accidently through keeping one each of two or more species of snails together. But so far, although we've seen mating, we've been told by malacologists that it's perfectly possible for some combinations and we've heard some anecdotal evidence of hybridising, I think it's fair to say we've not seen any concrete evidence, although it's possible I've missed or forgotten some cases.

[brgwnth]

i think i might go out and buy an Archachatina now to keep my babies company...

[coyote]

Jun 17, 2008 3:01:25 GMT Paul said:

If iredalei did manage to hybridise I think some of the resulting offspring would have a predisposition to lay and some would have a predisposition to hatch internally

Going off-topic a bit here, but I have a question about internal hatching.

For those that bear live young, are the eggshells the same as those that are laid in the soil? If so, what happens to the eggshells inside the parent snail when the babies hatch? Do the eggshells get expelled or reabsorbed? I would think that in the interests of conserving calcium, the eggshells would get reabsorbed, but I'm just guessing.

I'm very curious about this. Does anyone know the answer?

[brgwnth]

So i can go out and buy a Margie and a fulica now?
i hope so!

and then they wont have babies? (apart from French & Saunders obviously lol ;D)

forgive me if i haven't understood all i think about at the moment is being a bad parent to my babies (SNAILS!) and cake...

best regards,

Taz ;D

[brgwnth]

Coyote: I would think that they wouldn't as it is in their air hole so they might dispose of them in some other way.

( I have not edited the last post as this is on a completely different topic lol ;D )

best regards,

Taz ;D

[Kevin]

Jun 18, 2008 12:11:00 GMT brgwnth said:

So i can go out and buy a Margie and a fulica now?
i hope so!

yeah you could keep those together, either of them could self fertilise though, so you could still end up with eggs. Also, margies prefer very warm and humid conditions, so you'll need to check how the fulica adapts to the conditions, since they usually like to be kept a little cooler and less humid.

[Paul]

Jun 17, 2008 19:16:35 GMT coyote said:

For those that bear live young, are the eggshells the same as those that are laid in the soil? If so, what happens to the eggshells inside the parent snail when the babies hatch? Do the eggshells get expelled or reabsorbed? I would think that in the interests of conserving calcium, the eggshells would get reabsorbed, but I'm just guessing.

I have no idea, but it seems to me that if baby snails eat the egg albumen and shell when they've been laid, they'd do the same inside the parent.

[brgwnth]

yeah you could keep those together, either of them could self fertilise though, so you could still end up with eggs. Also, margies prefer very warm and humid conditions, so you'll need to check how the fulica adapts to the conditions, since they usually like to be kept a little cooler and less humid.

how warm would be warm?

[coyote]

Jun 18, 2008 17:49:17 GMT Paul said:

Jun 17, 2008 19:16:35 GMT coyote said:

For those that bear live young, are the eggshells the same as those that are laid in the soil? If so, what happens to the eggshells inside the parent snail when the babies hatch? Do the eggshells get expelled or reabsorbed? I would think that in the interests of conserving calcium, the eggshells would get reabsorbed, but I'm just guessing.

I have no idea, but it seems to me that if baby snails eat the egg albumen and shell when they've been laid, they'd do the same inside the parent.

Aha! That makes perfect sense. Thanks! ;D

[Kevin]

Jun 18, 2008 18:06:20 GMT brgwnth said:

yeah you could keep those together, either of them could self fertilise though, so you could still end up with eggs. Also, margies prefer very warm and humid conditions, so you'll need to check how the fulica adapts to the conditions, since they usually like to be kept a little cooler and less humid.

how warm would be warm?

around 26-30c, a heated tank with restricted ventilation, and possibly a water bowl to help with the humidity should be fine.

[brgwnth]

cool. i am sat here with French the tiger sat on my palm. what kind of temperature would i have for a fulica?

best regards,
Taz ;D

[donut]

i have my 2 Fuli & my Margi in the same Viv there is a bowl of water in there which i find the Margi (velma) likes to sit in

the temp is USUALLY around 35-38 & the humidity around 70 has been as low as 60 & high as 90 - its usually up to 90 for a few days after i change the Coir coz obviously its moister than just spraying when its fresh soaked BOTH breeds cope well & i have no probs with burrowing OR retracting (or the oposite) the only time i usually find them burred is in a morning if it has dipped in the night (temp) as there isnt a heat mat on the tank now HTH

(Edit for Confusion - should be 25-28 deg NOT 35-38 SOZ lol)

[Deleted]

Jun 26, 2008 19:14:48 GMT donut said:

the temp is USUALLY around 35-38 & the humidity around 70 has been as low as 60 & high as 90 - its usually up to 90 for a few days after i change the Coir coz obviously its moister than just spraying when its fresh soaked BOTH breeds cope well & i have no probs with burrowing OR retracting (or the oposite) the only time i usually find them burred is in a morning if it has dipped in the night (temp) as there isnt a heat mat on the tank now HTH

wow that's hot. how do you get it that hot? are u sure it isn't too hot? i think on the equator (where margies and fulica are from) it's usually around 29C all year.

[donut]

i just checked - i made a BOOBOO lol its 25-28 LOL i was touch typin while chattin to the kids LOL SOWWWWY - it does sometimes get up to 30 again when i have changed the substrata & there is extra heat (i use hot water on the Coir & when it cool enough pop it in the Viv) SOZ for the confusion again (embarrassed face here) LOL

[brgwnth]

oh good!

now i just need funding...

i might ACTUALLY have to start doing the dishes 0.o

lol

best regards,
Taz ;D