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Post by mistyanita on Aug 8, 2009 13:47:56 GMT
My partner just bought a new snail, Archachatina Degneri or puylaepti we were told... The seller said he had slight shell damage and wanted to sell him as a pet rather than breeding from him... Well he turned up and he has wart like lumps all over his skin, some only small and some huge. He also has a very large swelling in his neck that looks awful, almost like a baloon about to burst. He also hasn't eaten a bite in 3 days. After inquiring about his previous condition the seller then admitted he had 'skin damage' which she never mentioned before selling him. But the main issue is now we have this little guy who looks so ill and probably will just waste away while we try to get him healthy Plus the added worry that he is contagious and he might infect our other snails (they are being kept very separate atm.) He does move around his tank but his body seems really weak, probably from not eating, poor little snail... And we have tried him on 3 diff types of lettuce, cucumber, pepper, tomato, cooked and raw sweet potato... the list goes on... If anyone has any advice it would really be appreciated Thanks a lot, Emily
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Aug 9, 2009 3:06:33 GMT
He also has a very large swelling in his neck that looks awful, almost like a baloon about to burst. He also hasn't eaten a bite in 3 days. Hi Emily . . . this bit about the swelling caught my eye. Is this swollen area near where his mouth is? The description sounds a lot like when my milk snail got swollen mouth. If indeed your snail has swollen mouth, I don't think anything can be done for him. As far as I know, swollen mouth cannot be treated or recovered from, and some even think it could be a precursor to gut extrusion. I don't know about the other swellings on him, though. I don't think they are related to swollen mouth. They could be a consequence of malnutrition, or they could be something unrelated. I'm very sorry about your snail. It's a shame his true condition wasn't disclosed to you before purchase. You've given him a very good home, though. Sometimes these things happen in spite of all our best efforts to take good care of our snails.
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lucyjames
Achatina immaculata
I iz da King...
Posts: 323
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Post by lucyjames on Aug 9, 2009 16:00:54 GMT
The warts and swellings on the body could be a sensitivity to the soil, chlorine in the water, acid in food... there are many causes for this... The balloon in his neck could just be his love-dart, if it is his neck definately... I pray that it is nothing like this petsnails.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pests&action=display&thread=7692 as this could mean gut extrusion... That often looks like a "balloon"... Are you able to take pictures at all? Hope your little one feels better soon...
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 9, 2009 19:38:25 GMT
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vicki
Achatina achatina
Posts: 45
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Post by vicki on Aug 9, 2009 20:42:32 GMT
Sorry to hear about your little guy!!!.... im not sure what other people may think to this but one of my snails hasnt been very well (just really lethargic and not eating) and i decided to get a fork, mush up a strawberry and scrape some cuttlefish into it to form a pink looking yogurt type snail food ........ after putting it on my finger and putting it closely near his mouth, he ate the whole little dish i made for him.
I hope he gets better soon!!!!! ...... If he has got a poorly mouth then dont forget to make sure his drinking water has been standing for at least a day as i was always told that fresh tap water can cause ulcer like lumps in their mouth which would also stop them from eating? x
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 10, 2009 16:40:54 GMT
Thanks again everyone, I am sure its not his love dart but I'm also quite confident it is not swollen mouth or gut extrusion (I hope!!). I will use only bottled water for him form now on and try him on all sorts of soft and tasty food. I tried putting him in a circle of porridge last night but he didn't eat any
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 10, 2009 17:07:44 GMT
Well I just found anopther problem with him. He is covered in tiny white worms!!!! They seem to come out when i bath him as I have been closely inspecting his skin frequently but only just noticed them today in the bath. They are almost invisible and are just all over his skin!! Could these be living in his skin causing the lumps and discomfort/not eating??
I am boiling his plastic tank and then he is being moved onto kitchen roll and I will change it daily. He will aslo be bathed and wiped clean as many times as I can every day... Its just getting difficult to get him out of his shell atm as he is deeply retracted and also very nervous...
I have heard of those carnivorous mites you can buy. Would they be any help for him???
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 10, 2009 17:47:05 GMT
Well I decided to puncture one of his little swellings and 2 worms came out of his skin!!! I feel physically sick. I am SO angry at this woman who sold me him. Risking my snails and my sanity!! Plus the poor guy has worms inside his skin eating him! What can I do? ? I have got quite a few off him (about 20!) and for the past hour he has been in the bath (which seems to bring them out) and then cleaned and poked to try to clear them off him. Anyone else had anything like this happen???
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Post by Bumblebee on Aug 10, 2009 18:58:42 GMT
Damn that sounds so disgusting to find worms in your snail like that :s I really hope you manage to get them all out of him and that he will be doing all good after it
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Post by copigeon on Aug 10, 2009 19:04:41 GMT
Parasitic nemetodes are common with snails and can cause damage, but you want to be careful. Imports can carry different species of threadworms, which are parasitic to humans too. What you describe isnt something Ive ever seen in an import before, and isnt normal for the common nemetode/threadworms you come in contact with in the hobby. Whatever the threadworm/fluke is I wouldnt be exposing it to my skin personally, use gloves.
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 10, 2009 19:22:07 GMT
Thank you for the info, I will wear gloves from now on!!!! I have been really thinking what could help clear these worms and thought that they might be able to be suffocated with something like vaseline as it would trap the air supply to the skin and kill them but I don't know if it would kill poor simon the snail... I know I would have to make sure his breathing hole stays clear but would it be toxic or damage his skin permiability??
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Rachel
Archachatina puylaerti
They see me snailin'
Posts: 1,183
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Post by Rachel on Aug 10, 2009 19:46:13 GMT
steer clear of vaseline, it could cause illness in the snail. All I can suggest is give him lots of pumpkin seed and mabye green tea baths. Have you been in contact with the seller about this?
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 10, 2009 20:08:26 GMT
Thanks, is there anything else similar to vaseline that i could use?? Its just that there are so many worms I dont think i could clean them all off.
God this is stressful! I will be writing a very strong email to the seller and contacting the mods about her as I got him off the classified section of this site... I am so angry about this situation.
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Rachel
Archachatina puylaerti
They see me snailin'
Posts: 1,183
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Post by Rachel on Aug 10, 2009 20:24:10 GMT
Unfortunately vaseline and similar products are unsitable for use on snails, all i can suggest is gently showering him once every ten minutes or so until you can't see any left one him. It might be worthwhile phoning a vet and describing the worms to them, they might be able to look them up for you, also if it was an import you may need to get in touch with someone to warn them about this, possibley the enviromental agency, i'm not sure though. As kevin said wear gloves and wash your hands and arms thoroughly after handling the poor little guy. Also i'd sugest you get in touch with ness (aliensnail) on www.supersnails.proboards.com/index.cgi , tell her whats happened and who you bought the snail from.
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Post by bluepegasus on Aug 10, 2009 20:37:29 GMT
Aww poor thing, I hope you can get rid of them, that really is nasty.
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Aug 10, 2009 21:16:04 GMT
Pumpkin seeds can kill worms. Try grinding them up for your snail, it will probably make it easier to eat then rasping on a whole seed.
Sending lots of magickal anti-worm rays to your snail ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 10, 2009 21:36:23 GMT
Ooh i will def try pumpkin seeds! Thanks a lot. And i will contact my vets. They tend to look at me like I'm crazy half the time when i come in with another strange creature but if they can help I am more than happy. As for the woman who sold it she shouldn't be able to keep snails! I have no idea what her user name is as her post has disappeared from the forum but I will contact the mods and ask them if they know who she is so she can't sell anyone else any snails(thanks for the info on aliensnail, Rachel). I do have the sellers email address though so I can contact her about him... Words don't express my annoyance! I read on the petsnails website that aloe vera can sooth skin for swollen mouth so I might rub some of that on his skin in the worst places. It looks so irritated and painful for him... I will stay away from vaseline and keep on with the frequent showers and cleaning sessions. He's retracted about 2cm into his shell atm from too much stress and prodding, so I've only been able to clean the bit i can see... I will have to wait til he comes back out to do a full clean again. Thanks so much everybody! I really appreciate all the advice. Just hope he pulls through...
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Post by muddydragon on Aug 10, 2009 21:49:53 GMT
that is awful! you should deffinatly try to get those ID'd and be VERY careful! I dont know how pupkin seeds kill worms exactly but i have heard that they do thats good advice! maybe aswell as feeding them to him you could maybe make a paste to put on his body, maybe with the aloe vera maybe that would help? Best of luck with him! we all hope he'll make it
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Post by morningcoffee on Aug 11, 2009 12:23:37 GMT
The poor thing Hypoaspis mites can eat worms as well as small bugs and mites so it may be worth giving it a try - though I'm not sure how well they'd be able to get to worms under the skin. If they come out after a bath as you say, then maybe you could put the mites into the tank, then try several baths over the course of a day and put him quickly back into the tank after each one so that the mites have a chance to attack the worms. You can buy the mites here: www.defenders.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/25/products_id/47?osCsid=jur0hb0mrmgm5i06r31nqb2pg1
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Aug 11, 2009 21:53:29 GMT
WRT aloe vera, I think it's worth noting that an aspersa I had with radula problems flinched violently away from some fresh aloe vera leaf I offered her in the tank. The aloe plant is growing next to my back door and is 100% pesticide-free and chemical-free, so I know it wasn't some foreign substance the snail was reacting to. The snail took a taste of the pulpy part of the leaf and flinched violently away.
It's possible that anything my snail tried to eat would have caused that same reaction, and that if you try aloe vera on your snail it will be okay. But I think it would be wise to be prepared for an unexpected reaction, and be able to wash the aloe off right away if need be.
Good luck with your snail, and let us know what happens!
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Post by ness on Aug 11, 2009 22:23:10 GMT
Hiya hun. in case you're wondering I'm Aliensnail, Ness has been my nick-name since childhood and is the name I use here. I've taken a look at the situation as requested and it's an awful thing for this little snail to be going through such a rough time, and of course stressful for you. It's great that you're doing everything you can for him. As stated by PM I have limited knowledge of parasitic infections in snails, but they do not sound like the rat lung worm, which is the one you tend to hear about in connection with the parasite being passed on to humans and other mammals but it's definitely sensible advice to be wearing gloves and to keep the snail away from all other pets, just in case. Just in case it's the larvae of a parasitic insect such as a parasitic wasp, I would also recommend keeping the snail in a completely different room as far away from the other tanks as possible.
Now I do understand how upsetting it must be to have received such a poorly snail, I think most of us would be pretty upset and annoyed if that happened to us BUT I know this lady, she's kept snails for quite some time, she is an experienced seller with very good feedback, and I truely believe this is a one-off situation. The snail in question came from two different homes before-hand, both trustworthy keepers, and I could trace the snail back further if required. The seller in question did mention the skin condition and asked advice about it previously, and she was told that the skin had most likely had a reaction to being kept on peat soil. She gave the snail away for the cost of postage only, and there were no signs of worms at that point, and the skin warts did not appear suspicous to her at that time. She has been distressed to hear that this has happened and feels very bad about it, has given a refund of postage and apologised. I don't know what else she can do, hun. Since she has heard about this she has been checking her other snails for signs of disease (none found yet) and will not sell or rehome any more until she feels sure they are disease-free. The past owner has been informed so that she too can check her snails, and I will contact the owner before her so that he can check his. I really feel that this is a genuine mistake. In hindsight of course the snail shouldn't have been moved on to another home, but she did this in the belief that the skin condition was harmless, and she had done the right thing of seeking opinions on the snail before sending it out.
I think personally one thing to learn from this is, if in doubt, wait and see if the condition clears up before sending it on, i.e. in this case it would have been wise to have put the snail on a different substrate to see if it clears up, but we all make mistakes.
I very much hope your Simon-Snail will recover well, and that the infection doesn't spread, it is an awful situation, hope the pumpkin seeds and bathing work. I also hope that you've been reassured that this wasn't some con-artist palming off a sick snail on purpose, but a genuine mistake.
I've made this public because if anyone works out who this seller is, as the thread currently stand, her name will be mud, and I don't feel that it would be fair in this particular case.
I hope my waffle hasn't offended but has helped to clear things up a little.
Please keep everyone updated, and genuinely best wishes - Ness
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Post by ness on Aug 12, 2009 10:41:53 GMT
Further to the above post..... I got it slightly wrong about the warts, apologies for that. They appeared with one of the previous owners, in a few snails, when they changed their substrate from moss to peat. These lumpy swellings went down again in all but your snail when the substrate was changed back to moss. Therefore that backs up the belief that it was an allergic reaction. It simply appeared that for some reason with this snail the lumps became permanent like scars, but harmless.
I personallywonder if the skin condition and the worms are two seperate issues and co-incidental, as the other snails all appear to be completely worm-free for all of the people involved.
The snail may have fresh blisters caused by the parasite perhaps?
It would be very interesting to trace the source of the infection. Everyone will be keeping a close eye on their snails in case of an outbreak, but so far - nothing. I guess it all depends on how long the infection takes to hatch out, or whatever thie parasites life-cycle is.
How long had you had this snail before the worms started to come out? Any information you have may help us to try to work out some kind of life-cycle that these worms have.
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Post by mistyanita on Aug 12, 2009 14:09:36 GMT
Hi, Thanks for your reply ness and thanks so much for contacting the other owners of this snail. I have been in contact recently with the previous owner and she has apologised. She does seem genuinely sorry and had given a refund for him.
His lumps looked pretty bad when he first arrived and it was 4 days later that I noticed the worms. They are definately coming out of lumps in his skin, however it may be a coincidence that he has lupmy skin alongside lumpy worms. It could also be possible that the worms are living in the the scarred skin as it is an easy target so to speak...
There is unfortunately an even more grotesque symptom now. The lumps that have punctured are now disintegrating and his skin is flaking off and is turning white underneath. This does mean that the pockets of worms are being removed as they are not trapped under his skin but it looks awful as it is like his skin has just turned to mush and I am worried about hiw painful it is for him...
I have bought some hypoaspis mites for him and also got some pumpkin seeds and green tea for him... and for now we'll just keep trying to get him better...
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Post by ness on Aug 12, 2009 19:36:13 GMT
From what I can gather, and I may be wrong, but the white skin and the worms being pushed out is probably a good thing.
The blisters are bursting, hopefully the skin underneath is of a normal texture, and the scar tissue on snails is often white so the colour should not be a worry health-wise.
No one can be sure of the level of pain and irritation a snail can feel, but I have a rescue fulica with a very large (for it's size) white scar on the back of it's neck near to where the shell is. The snail acts in a totally normal way and I have not observed any signs of irritation what-so-ever with this snail.
I would see how the snail is once the worms have left and the blisters have burst, and once the problem calms down. If your snail is sliming around, retracting with ease, coming out of the shell with ease, happy to let you gently touch the scar area, then I would assume that the snail is not under stress from the scar.
- Ness
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Post by muddydragon on Aug 12, 2009 21:29:24 GMT
Hi, Yes i'ld agree it sounds like the snail is healing himself by isolating the worms in blisters and hardenening scar tissue underneath then pushing them out by popping. it sounds like things are actually getting better (although it may not look like it) heres an example of some scar tissue on a healthy happy snail (infact i'm fairly sure it's the snail of which ness speaks) He would let me touch the scar tissue without being bothered atall so it obviously doesnt hurt him. i really wish you good luck with him!
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