Albino mating produce...???

[Evil Angel]

Hey,

Would 2 albino Reticulata's produce normal Reticulata's??

Thanks!

[wolf]

Hi,
normally: no. Anything else would be very interesting.
The genotype of an albino should be aa, and aa x aa leads to aa (-> albino phenotype) in the offspring, without exception.
Things might be a little more difficult if more than only one gene or epigenetic mechanisms are involved.
Kind regards: wolf

[ness]

Logically I totally agree with wolf, however I have heard of two albino reticulata producing a mix, plus I have had albino Archachatina marginata also producing a mix.

I suspect that with some species the albino gene may not behave quite like that in most species, but perhaps may simply switch on or off? I would be interested to know myself.

Fulica genetics certainly appear to behave as Wolf says, but I'm not sure what is going on with reticulata. I would also be interested to see if anyone else can back up what I have heard about reticulata, as perhaps the owner of the two I mentioned may perhaps have been mistaken. For example perhaps it may be possible that the albino mated with a normal without this person knowing (but if that were the case, in theory, all of the babies should have been of normal colour, and some albinos should be produced only if two of these offspring were mated together.

I do hear from time to time that snail genetics do not behave in the way that we would expect! ;D

[Evil Angel]

Thanks for the replys!

I love both normal and albino reticulata's! I've got 2 albinos and was hoping that they might produce a normal for me too! If they ever do produce normal I'll let you know!!

[Evil Angel]

Another question, if you'd be so kind to answer...

I've got 4 Fulica snails:

1 normal
1 White Jade
1 Rodatzi
1 Jadatzi

They are all living together, so should they produce all 4 variants??

Thanks

[ness]

Oh now THERE's a question!!!!

Right then it all depends who mates with who.

Going on the usual genetic rule, which generally works well with fulica (though I'll contradict myself further down the post so please be kind to me!)......
Stripes and dark bodies are the dominent genes in A.fulica, so if either of those traits are in one parent the resulting offspring will have those traits regardless of what type the other parent is. However the offspring will carry genes of both parents so recessive genes (those of albino body and plain Rodatzi shell) are likely to show in the next generation, i.e. if/when the offspring mate.
For example if you pair a normal with a jadatzi you will get normal looking fulica (UNLESS the normal is carrying recessive genes). The same thing will happen if you pair a Jade with a rodatzi. In either scenario pairing two of the offspring will result in an entire mix of colours as they will pass two dominent or two recessive genes or a one of each to each individual egg.
You'll have babies with:
* dominent gene shells and dominent gene bodies (will look like normal fulica but may be carrying recessive genes so their offspring will be a guess)
* dominent gene shells and recessive gene bodies (to look like jade), - all of THEIR offspring would have albino bodies but IF they also carry recessive gene for the shells you may get some jadatzis from them.
* recessive gene shells and dominent gene bodies (will look like rodatzi) - their offspring will all have rodatzi shells, you MAY get some jadatzi IF they also carry recessive genes for albino bodies
* recessive gene shells and recessive gene bodies (full jadatzi, and ALL resulting offspring will be jadatzi).

For rodatzi shells or albino bodies to show up the snail will (probably) have two recessive genes in it's genetic make-up, so will (probably) lack dominent genes. Therefore will (probably) pass on only recessive genes.

I say probably because this model of snail genetics works well almost all of the time with fulica but not all snails appear to follow this rule.... but that's another issue! The rule is common in nature from mammals to - well just about anything, but snails appear to have not read the rule book in some cases! I suspect that perhaps some snails genes are more like switches. As in the recessive genes are actually normal dominent genes just switched off, and sometimes environmental triggers may cause the genes to switch back to the dominent trait.
I once had an entire 'litter' of rodatzi babies from rodatzi parents - except for one snail which had stripes! This shouldn't be possible, but switches MAY be an explanation. It could be some other reason though, and the simple truth is I don't know enough about the subject to tell anyone what is definitely going on.

But if you have plans to produce a particular variety and are unsure about which ones to pair off let me know. I can give you an idea of the most likely outcome.

[wolf]

Hi ness,

Thanks for your posts. Japs, I totally agree with you.

Right, there are several reports of people getting streaked offspring out of a rodatzi x rodatzi crossing. If this is true, it is a contradiction to a simple mechanism.
So we have to keep in mind the possibility of two or more genes involved, that means a "heterogenic" effect:
Parents: AAbb (unstreaked because the second gene is out of order twice)
and aaBB (unstreaked because the first gene is out of order twice)
AAbb x aaBB leads to the genotype AaBb in the offspring (streaked because each gene is present once in the correct, dominant form).

Another possibility is an epigenetic mechanism, true enough, the switching of genes on and off.

A lot of work has to be done........ .

Bye: wolf

[Evil Angel]

Wow thanks for the reply!

So by keeping all 4 types together there is a possibility of their offspring being all 4 types? Hope so!

[ness]

Yes, but like I say it's total luck with depending on who mates with who, and how many generations you would like.

The only problem is you may end up having to hatch many eggs to get all of the varieties, and you could end up with a very overcrowded tank if you are not careful. If you like the lucky-dip approach then I suggest you leave them to it and take literally just one or two eggs from each litter to hatch (afterall, the chances are that ince they start mating you'll get regular clutches of eggs).

How keen are you on getting albinos or rodatzi in the mix?
If you want to be sure of albinos first time then split them up and let the two albinos mate. If you want to be sure of getting ones that look like rodatzi first time then mate the jadatzi and the rodatzi.
Mate any of the resulting offspring together and you should get some jadatzi.

[ness]

Wolf. Thank you for your post. It's an area that interests me but I haven't learned very much about genetics, only the absolute basics, so your input is much appreciated.

[wolf]

But you are marvelous, no doubt, and very well informed, in fact
And I ain't a geneticist, either....... .
Thanks for your posts: wolf

[brunni]

Its surprising that albino animals do not necessarily elicit an albino shell ( or vica-versa ), suggesting genetic stimulus for the animal and for the shell are controlled separately.

[heydihoo]

I can confirm my two albino reticulata years ago produced a mix of normal and albino babies, and one with flesh coloured skin, it was only 1 that I ever saw with that coloured skin in all the batches I hatched and raised

[Evil Angel]

I really want all 4 types, I'll probably keep them all together and just see what I get, but if I want a certain type then I'll seperate a couple and wait until they produce what I'm after! but I think the 'lucky dip' approach sounds rather exciting I'll only keep 1 or 2 eggs out of every clutch and hopefully I'll get what I'm after eventually haha! But I do think it's something I've got to put a bit more thought into!! Thanks for all your help!

[wolf]

brunni: I'm quite sure that pigment production and implementation in the soft tissues and the shell are controlled by different genes, at least in part. I would like to know more about the pigments in land snails, I only found some papers concerning marine snails and mussels (with a lot of very different pigments, not only melanin).
As far as I remember, the phenomenon of "heterogeny" was first documented in human deafness: heterogeny simply explains how some parents, both being deaf, can get children with normal hearing capacity (2 genes involved, "normal" alleles dominant, "damaged" alleles recessive).
Kind regards: wolf

[ness]

Oct 26, 2011 9:27:30 GMT heydihoo said:

I can confirm my two albino reticulata years ago produced a mix of normal and albino babies, and one with flesh coloured skin, it was only 1 that I ever saw with that coloured skin in all the batches I hatched and raised

That must have been a gorgeous snail. Do you have pictures of it?