mixed breeding?

[LisaLQ]

Just wondered if it was possible for a reticulata to mate with a...erm....Jasper? Jasper being some sort of gorgeous albo/fulica/smithii/something or other cross.

Jasper laid a single egg whilst hanging from the side of the tank last night. There had already been another full batch in the tank, but I froze them thinking they were infertile as they were breaking up again. Then this morning I find some tiny pretty white eggs, 14 of them I think, and then this afternoon - Monty laid one from the side of the tank like Jasper did.

Bear in mind I saw Jasper's come out, and although I didn't see Monty's come out - he was in the same position as he'd been 5 minutes previously, but with no egg then.

I'm going to freeze them probably, but may hatch one or two if it's worth it. I dunno, I've got all these margies to see to, and the baby fulicas from Ebay. They're so tiny and opaque (the eggs) that I doubt they're fertile.

[Paul]

I was chatting with Robert all about this, which is where my clearer knowledge comes from, you may have noticed. Any 2 species can mate, and species similar enough can produce offspring. But... a snail crossbred from 2 distinct species would be infertile.

Not sure how that affects it, if Jasper is a true species, then offspring between them is possible. If he's a crossbreed, it is unlikely if his parents were truly different species.

Then there is the complication of self-fertilisation. Unless my small degneri did manage it with the other larger, mature one then I had a clutch of self-fertilised eggs because the babies came out as pure degneri.

[LisaLQ]

I dont think Jasper is pure anything really, he's just my mongrel snail (and a gorgeous one at that). He's from a mixed tank, which included fulicas, albos, smithi and more I think:



The last batch of eggs I removed the day before yesterday were disintergrating again (this is my second recent batch - third altogether - which have done this - mixed tank so no idea of parentage, but I blamed two on Cooper the fulica/fulica cross as I knew he was big enough and daft enough to breed). I watched Jasper lay one on the side of the tank last night, and removed it - it broke (they're very very small and almost opaque) and there was the beginnings of a shell in there. Then today, I see Monty the retic with an egg next to his..erm..hole (for want of a better word). And a small batch of a dozen or so in the food bowl. I've put them in a tub for now, but I'm probably going to freeze them - got my hands full with the margie eggs, tiger babies and two fulica babies from Ebay. I just wondered if it was possible more than anything. No matter how much I think they're gorgeous, I dont have any room for fulica types (when I say that, I mean who like fulica conditions - drier than my margies).

[Paul]

A snail repeatedly laying infertile eggs, like some of yours sound, could be a sign of infertility and thus proof perhaps of being a crossbreed.

If any of Jaspers eggs hatched, we'd have a chance of deducing what he is because he'd not be a crossbreed. Judging by what you have said in the past about his shell being so textured, he may be an albopicta. It's a shame you don't have a jewellers mag glass, coz you could tell me the texture of the apex which could rule out smithii. Then we'll just have to hope he gets bigger than 14cm with more than 8 whorls, which will vastly lower the chances of him being fulica.

I may have already asked but do you have any pictures of the likely parents, the albopicta and fulica I mean? A strong resemblence may help a little.

[LisaLQ]

No afraid not. KathyM's albos (or albo-a-likes) came from the same person, yet they're much lighter than Jasper. On the pics above you can see his shell getting darker in the newer growth, it's like this now:



He's an odd snail, he's got red-ish stripes, black ones, brown ones, loads of bright yellow, and some white/cream. Then his pinky watermelon tip.

Phebe described him as more fulica like than the other pale ones (ie. the ones Kathy and Kevin have had). He's got a very grainy texture to his flesh, which is a lovely light and bright peach and mushroom colour, contrary to the pics.

I have no clue what he is, he's just a pretty snail to me. I've called him my albo-a-like in the past, but now he's getting darker patches, I think he may turn out to be a light shelled fulica-a-like!

[LisaLQ]

Ps. The pics dont do him much justice - his yellow is literally bright canary yellow, very very bright.

[sezzy5889]

His skin colour also is very light, i mean much light than most fulica, i lean more towards albopicta, but like Paul says we can't be sure.

[LisaLQ]

Yeah he is very light in the body - he's proper peach coloured - with beigey skirts

One of the things making him look darker in the last pics is the fact my fulica tank is damper than usual at the moment, I need to drill more ventilation holes. It makes a big difference in how light/dark his shell is. Shall have to sort that out next clean out.

I've still got the eggs. I'm torn, as part of me is thinking I should hatch them but the other half is saying that there is a chance they could be fulicas, and with so many fulicas needing homes right now, it would be wrong to. But I did see an egg come out of Jasper - although whether or not he did the batch in the food bowl isn't certain.

Paaah, I dont know. Hmmph. Off to think about it a bit more.

[Deleted]

can't you just keep 2 or 3 eggs? they could be something special ;D who are the potential parents?

[LisaLQ]

Potential parents...hmm...well originally there was Sam, Layla, Monty, Cooper, and Jasper. Then Fidget and Widget arrived. Then my rescue snailie and Bruce the iredalei baby. Potential parents would be Sam, Cooper (has only ever laid a handful of infertile eggs, and batches Sam had with him have also been infertile), Monty. Layla potentially, but she's still rather small. But she is a slapper ;D Sam and Layla no longer live in the tank, and were removed before eggs showed up - so I know they didn't lay them.

But for Monty to lay one egg, and Jasper to lay one egg, and then there to be a small batch of eggs, leads me to believe it was Monty and Jasper who paired off. Sam's recent batch was infertile, and as his ones previously weren't (Cooper was a baby) I'm assuming they were Coopers. The other infertile batch the other day was probably Cooper's as he's been swollen up, and eating loads of cuttlefish. But for Sam's batch to be infertile, that would mean that Cooper's eggs were fertilised by Sam.

So this tiny batch wasn't Sam's as he wasn't in the tank any more. Not Layla's either. Laid by, that is. It's doubtful they're Coopers. Fidget, Widget, new fulica and iredalei definitely not. Far too young in Fidget and Widget's case, and same goes for the rescue fulica and iredalei - and only arrived this week.

Soooo basically Monty and Jasper laid eggs. Cooper, Sam, and Layla at a push may have fertilised them both - but Sam and Cooper just laid, so I'm thinking it's unlikely to be them. Which leaves Layla.

But my gut instinct goes for the pair of them mating together. What with retics and albos being similar species, and there being a small tiny chance that there's some albo genes in Jasper, it just seems the most likely.

Hmm. How many of you are confused now? I am!

[Deleted]

monty's the reticulata right?

well if they're likely to be eggs from jasper and monty, then why not keep a few? i mean, if they're fertile, imagine how beautiful the babies would be ;D