Sad snail

[bmo]

Hi, I'm a first-time snail owner, I have two Fulicas, Hermes and B-MO. I estimate they're around 3-4 years old. 
I've had them for about three months now, they're brilliant! But I'm getting very worried about Hermes, the larger of the two. Both of them laid eggs recently, B-MO two weeks ago, Hermes last weekend. B-MO is alert and healthy, but Hermes has seemed off-colour ever since he laid. At first I assumed it was just mites, as I've had problems with them in the past, and after daily bathing it looks as if I've got rid of most of them. But it doesn't seem to have worked - he's very inactive and doesn't seem to have eaten any food or calcium, even though I put fresh veg in there every 2-3 days. The only time I've seen him move is when he has a bath. I put him in to food bowl afterwards, he's definitely interested and pokes the food, but I have yet to see him make a good attempt at eating. He doesn't even want to come out when I put him on his cuttlefish bone.
The weird thing is, I've read a lot of posts about snails retracting deeply into their shells when something is wrong, but Hermes hasn't done this - for the most part he pokes his head out, but doesn't extend his eyestalks and basically just looks miserable! When he does extend them, they're often quite droopy, I've heard this is bad. 
He was also very, very mucusy yesterday - it was clear, but very thick and covered most of his foot. What could this mean?
I've heard snails can be quite weak after laying eggs - is this true? Has anyone else had a similar problem?

[bmo]

I cleaned out the tank today, in case it is down to a mite infestation - it was like he was back to normal for 5 minutes and seemed interested in his food, but still didn't eat anything. He looked and felt kind of underweight when I was handling him, too.
He is now back in his usual position of only just out of his shell with his eyestalks retracted. I don't know what else to do!

[morningcoffee]

Apr 5, 2014 10:05:49 GMT bmo said:

At first I assumed it was just mites, as I've had problems with them in the past, and after daily bathing it looks as if I've got rid of most of them.

If your snail has mites, the most thorough way to get rid of them is by adding predatory Hypoaspis miles to the tank, as the harmful Riccardoella mites can hide inside the snail's shell where only the predatory mites can reach them.

You can buy them here: www.defenders.co.uk/pest-solutions/biological-sciarid-fly-control.html

[bmo]

I have looked in to these before and they definitely sound like the most effective way of getting rid of mites, but the cost and sheer quantity are off-putting! Is there a way of preserving the hypoapsis to use over a longer period of time? They'd be handy to have around, and ultimately you want to do what's best for your pets, but I wouldn't want to buy 10,000 of them and only need to use a teaspoonful!

[muddydragon]

you could phone the company and ask how long a tub lasts for? so biological pest control are in a dormant state in tubs etc so actually last a long time and only wake up with contact with stuff such as moisture, but you'ld have to ask the company.

Obviously keeping them too clean is bad but maybe try doing a full clean where everything is sterilised. Whatever substrate you use, if it's dried make it up with boiling water if not bake it or microwave it (depending on what it is!). clean the tank more thoroughly than usual (how do you normally clean it?) if it's not glass and not meltable give it a soak in boiling water. you can also use boiling water on glass but you need to bring the temperature up slowly so as not to crack it so be very careful if you do that.

Give your snails a bath to clean off as many mites or potential mites as possible, I've heard baths in cool green tea can prove helpful anyway.

assuming mites aren't the problem and it's exhaustion after egg laying or just in general
try giving him warm baths every evening when the other one comes out and also if you can place a shallow water dish next to the heatmat. try feeding soft high protein foods such as moistened fish flakes, moisted oats, soaked cat/dog biscuits, soaked layers pellets etc. and see if he perks up. some snails who are reluctant to eat find soft foods easier.

[moon]

When my snails have been weak after egg laying, I've cooked sweet potato & carrot, then mashed it together. It always goes down quite well as it's easy to eat. Also are you able to buy organic baby corn where you are? If you live in the UK, large branches of Tesco sell it. All my snails adore it, also maybe try some organic mango.

Regarding the mites, I've bought hypoapsis from Defenders in the past. 10,000 may seem a lot but it's really not, because they are not all active at the same time. They come in a substrate & you have to tip it into shallow lidded containers pierced with holes and put these inside your snail tanks. Gradually the adult hypoapsis crawl out of the tubs into the tanks and start going to work searching out mites. Some of the hypoapsis are babies, so they don't leave the tubs straight away, there are also eggs amongst the substrate, so you have to spray inside the tubs daily to keep them moist. You also have to remove any water dishes from the snail tanks or they will drown.

If you look after the predatory mites, it will usually be around 8 weeks until they have all died off as their lifespan is only a few weeks, by which time they should have eaten all the white mites. If you have a really bad infestation, they may come back but in the future, but hopefully it will work first time.

Good luck.

[bmo]

I think I saw him trying to eat a little bit of banana today, but I couldn't see his radula come out. Is this just a sign of weakness? He was interested in his cuttlefish bone but again, seemed too weak to try rasping it.
I bathed him in green tea just now and he loved it! Fully extended and perked up his eyestalks for a few minutes. Hid back in his shell afterwards, but again, I'm hoping this is simply because he is pretty weak right now. Maybe it was all a bit too much excitement for one day!
Thank you for the information about hypoapsis, moon - I will buy a vial as soon as I see any mites. I check the snails' pneumostomes daily and there's nothing!
For now I will stick to daily green tea baths and mushy food, and hopefully Hermes will get better..

[morningcoffee]

Apr 6, 2014 14:33:04 GMT bmo said:

I think I saw him trying to eat a little bit of banana today, but I couldn't see his radula come out. Is this just a sign of weakness? He was interested in his cuttlefish bone but again, seemed too weak to try rasping it.
I bathed him in green tea just now and he loved it! Fully extended and perked up his eyestalks for a few minutes. Hid back in his shell afterwards, but again, I'm hoping this is simply because he is pretty weak right now. Maybe it was all a bit too much excitement for one day!
Thank you for the information about hypoapsis, moon - I will buy a vial as soon as I see any mites. I check the snails' pneumostomes daily and there's nothing!
For now I will stick to daily green tea baths and mushy food, and hopefully Hermes will get better..

You could also try adding drops of vitamin solution (usually sold for reptiles) into his bathwater, maybe he will absorb or drink in some.

[bmo]

I'm starting to get worried that this is the first stages of the fatal retraction problem I hear so much about on this forum. I thought after yesterday Hermes was recovering, but he'd retracted just that little bit further into his shell this morning that made me worry. I've never seen him retract deeply, but he's certainly underweight, spends more than 24 hours buried, and this evening when I took him out to eat his shell fell on its side and he made no attempt to right himself straight away. I don't know what to say about his appetite - he is very interested in the food mush I made him (carrot and aubergine) but I can't tell if he's eating or just sliming all over it! 
Right now he is having a slime around my desk and is fully extended, but moving incredibly slowly (for a snail!). I know there's a strong possibility that as soon as I put him back in the tank he will shrivel back up and stay like that until I wake him again. The only time I can get him to come out of his shell is if I bathe him or pick him up - he never comes out of his own accord.
I am worried I'm hoping he will get better slowly, but if it is that horrible retraction thing, how long will it take before he starts showing later symptoms? How can I make him comfortable? Poor Hermes..

[Zorst]

Sorry to read about your snail Hermes. Our first snail Zorst never laid eggs but did nearly give up living after his friend died, they arrived here in a pretty bad shape. I found feeding him with soaked cat biscuits and cooked mashed sweet potato, squash and other veg whilst holding him after he'd had a warm bath helped.

I put the food in front of him on my hand and watched him eat, this helped him gain his strength back. If I put the food in his tank with him n sat him on it he'd just go back in his shell and not eat, but by holding him and interacting with him he perked up and ate. Zorst went on to live a couple more years after that.

It may help you with Hermes if you tried the same of feeding him whilst you held him. Soaked oats may be another option also, as all these foods have a higher protein content than just normal leafy veg etc.

Zorst

[bmo]

It may help you with Hermes if you tried the same of feeding him whilst you held him. Soaked oats may be another option also, as all these foods have a higher protein content than just normal leafy veg etc.

Thanks for that advice, Zorst - I've tried it with the snail mush I've been making, but he just sits there looking droopy :/ It would be nice to hold him, though. I woke up this morning to find him deeply retracted This is the first time I've found him like this, but given his condition my worst fears may be confirmed. He's still alive, if barely - he moved slightly when I touched him. I am going to get some fish flakes, as my friend who had them before me said that's what they ate when they were little, and many people here have suggested them. 
Other than that, I guess the best thing to do now is to keep feeding him, give him warmth and comfort and just let nature take its course, either way

[Zorst]

Sorry to hear he's so deeply retracted. It sounds like your doing the best you can for him and as you say you just have to let nature take its course either way. Egg laying can take a lot out of them, I'm glad I kept some from some of the other snails here as not all of them recovered again afterwards. At least we have a few of there young.

Zorst

[bmo]

I've been feeding him nothing but wet fish flakes for the past two days and he might just be improving - I found him deeply retracted again yesterday morning, and it took a lot of coaxing to get him to move. I really thought he was dead for a moment! But he made the best attempt at eating I've seen in the past week, last night, and this morning he was in the normal 'sleeping' position, not deeply retracted at all! He is still very underweight and limp, but seems that little bit more active now. I woke him up this morning just to be sure, and he's having a little explore around his new tank right now.

I thought it would be a good idea to separate them, not only because I was worried B-MO might catch something if it was a virus, but also because unfortunately I'm going travelling for just under two weeks in a couple of days, and can't take them with me I'm leaving them in the care of a trusted friend who has a snail of her own, so I know she'll look after them properly. I've written her some instructions on how to make sure Hermes is eating, just to be safe.

Hand-feeding has been so good for him, I can be sure he's actually eating and it's also a lovely bonding experience!

[Zorst]

I'm so glad that Hermes seems to be picking up, I really found that the hand feeding helped no end and as you say its a great bonding experience.

When Zorst was sick I had to take him away with me, my friend was a bit like Whats that as Snail! when I walked in n put Zorst's small tank on the side.I replied yeah n we have to makes sure he survives. My friend wasn't that impressed at the idea of hand feeding a giant snail n thought I was crazy bringing it on the train with me and raiding his refrigerator n cupboards for snail edible food.

But later I walked in to find him holding Zorst n talking to him whilst coaxing him to eat. My friend's not snail crazy but I occasionally remind him of the fact lol. Zorst did recover that time partly thanks to my non snail loving friend.

I'm glad you've got a snail owning friend to look after Hermes n B-MO whilst your away that should help, knowing that they will be looked after.

Zorst

[bmo]

It's been a while, but I thought I'd post an update. Finally got my snails back! They are back in their usual tank and B-MO is enjoying having his waterbowl back. My friend has been giving me updates about Hermes' condition, and according to her he has refused to eat anything she offered him and has spent most of the time deeply retracted. Then a few days ago she told me he'd grown a layer of calcium over the shell opening. I didn't know he could still do this as he hasn't touched calcium for a good few weeks! He showed no signs of movement and we feared the worst, but as she was transporting them to my house on the bus, he broke the calcium layer and came out. I can't believe he is still alive! No signs of improvement though - I placed him on the warm side of the tank and put a mushy piece of aubergine in front of him, but he took no interest and has now retracted again
I imagine he will probably go soon, if what my friend said about him not eating is true. I'm kind of happy it'll happen when he's home, though.

[muddydragon]

that layer means he has aestivated and he's very upset about something, either the conditions (substrate, humidity, temperature) or he is ill.

You could try to persuade him to eat by waking him with a warm bath when the other snail wakes up, and try offering high protein mushy foods (fishflakes, dog food, mashed sweet potato etc). A warm bath permanently in the tank sometimes helps sick snails (a shallow dish of water next to the heatmat)

Best of luck

[bmo]

Thanks muddydragon, I've been doing this for the past three weeks with no luck

I assumed the reason he was sealed in before was because he was in a smaller tank with different conditions to his regular one. I gave him a bath last night, it took a lot of coaxing but eventually he broke out and slimed around on my hand. Tried him with some mushy food, but didn't eat anything as usual. A few minutes after I put him back in the bigger tank, he'd deeply retracted again. He's sealed up now, too, and the calcium layer is right at the back of his shell, not at the lip.

The only thing I can think of is that he's close to death - like how animals often find a quiet place to slip away, him sealing himself shut is the equivalent of that. Is that possible? I haven't come across any topic here about deep retraction AND sealed in, this is just my own theory..

[lashandra]

Hi, bmo!

I read your thread and I think I have a similar problem with my Cantareus . I wrote it here petsnails.proboards.com/thread/13983/snail-suddenly-deactivates-eating . My snail has not been deeply retracted though but now he has built a seal almost covering the entrance. I tried to vary his environment a bit, but seems like it doesn't impact his mood. And he haven't eaten anything considerably for about a month now . And he has just turned adult.
Could you please give an update on your snail Hermes? How was he doing after you wrote your post on May 1? 

[bmo]

Hi lashandra!

Sorry for not seeing this sooner, and apologies for bringing up an old post - Hermes is still alive, and is eating! It was so weird - I had almost given up hope, then one evening I was cleaning out their tank..the snails were in their bath, and he just popped out and started moving around! I changed their food too, not expecting him to touch any of it, but he just climbed on some sweet potato and started munching away! He's still pretty underweight, but fatter than he used to be. And I still find him deeply retracted sometimes, but then if I move him he comes right out.

I can't think of anything I did differently apart from switching to a brand new soil. I got this stuff from a nearby pet shop. www.reptiles.swelluk.com/reptile-supplies/reptile-substrates-420/rainforest-substrates-1172/habistat-coir-substrate-415030.html?ref=shopping&utm_source=product-search&utm_medium=googlebase&gclid=CjgKEAjw8MqcBRCsv5Kf8NCUwlgSJADL4ihh3Is-i2NsPOAKLYOEJCXcf4OAG-Os6GBD9n4QW7CQqfD_BwE

It's very damp and holds moisture very well. I think it's better for them than the normal garden soil they had before.

Other than that, I have genuinely no idea why Hermes decided to get better again...he's been slowing down a bit recently but he is quite an old snail now.

So perhaps try a bag of this soil and see what happens? Or try your snail on some mushy food that's easy for him to eat? Mine love moist fish food and mashed sweet potato

Again, sorry for only seeing your post now! I hope this helps - good luck with your snail

[Zorst]

Glad to read he's on the mend BMO.

Zorst

[lashandra]

Hi, bmo!

Happy to hear Hermes is recovering! His digestion is working, that's a very important thing. I also wondered if environment can cause loss of appetite and deep retraction. As I have started to observe snails at my own garden more, I must admit that I never realised how much local light, temperature or moisture nuances were impacting their behavior, not to mention exotic species (like my Cantareus) I knew almost nothing of.  

My snail passed away the next day I posted on your thread. I guess there was no turning back at some point. It still hurts to think how it all turned out , and there is only myself to blame. And I wonder if I had done anything different when I first noticed there was something wrong, would he still be alive? I can't undo anything...All I can think of is that now he is free and in a better place. 

[Zorst]

Sorry to hear about your snail lashandra,

I've just recently lost 2 nearly adult snails here for no apparent reason one day they were fine n the next the largest one was dead and the other Albino died a few days later even after I thought he'd perked up n started eating and slimming around again. Strange as the normal colored one's of the same snail type in that same tank are totally fine happy and healthy. Its always sad when it happens, but I do hope that you keep on having snails as pets as there great to have around.

Zorst

[lashandra]

Sad to hear about your losses too, Zorst. These little fellows really can catch our hearts.

As simple as snails routine may seem, it turns out that we just can't figure them out completely. I was very pleased to learn that bmo's Hermes was doing better , because when I did not see updates I feared the worst. I think it is very important to share experience - good and bad. There may always be somebody searching for answers.  
Maybe I should update my own thread someday, though its hard  .

[bmo]

I'm really sorry to hear about your snails, Zorst.

And sorry too, Lashandra, I'm sure you did all you could for your snail, and the fact that you were seeking advice on this forum and trying lots of different methods shows you really cared for him. He was very lucky to have you looking out for him

It seems like sometimes snails just decide it's their time to go, for whatever reason. I know when Hermes does pass away I will be getting more - snails are great pets, I don't think many people realise just how much they can capture our hearts, as you say! When Hermes was really sick, the amount of people who told me 'it's just a snail' was really sad - it shouldn't matter. Just because they're not fluffy and cuddly like cats and dogs doesn't mean they can't be wonderful pets that deserve to be looked after.

I agree with Zorst and hope you let more snails into your life - what country do you live in? I don't know much about the laws in different countries, but if you can get some fulicas, it's great watching them grow and they are very easy to look after in terms of temperature and environment.

Then again, looking at pictures of canterus snails...they are adorable!!

[lashandra]

Thanks for your kind words, bmo!
I became a pet-snail owner accidentally, I found him in cauliflower from Italy. I live in Latvia and because snails are common garden pests here (there are about million of them in my own garden), it is very unusual to have them as pets. When I asked for a cuttlefish bone at pet store, store-girl made big eyes. And as you say - 'it's just a snail' attitude...not everybody can understand. I have 9 pigeons at home. My sister and me took all of them from the street some years ago, they had some disease(s) and could not fly and eat normally or at all. They are sweet pets, but general people's attitude toward pigeons on the street is rather negative.
I see that there are very nice people on this forum, it is great pleasure to communicate with you all