Training...!?

[bookitten]

Hi.
I was just wondering if you thought it was a good idea to possibly make a training program for snails. yeah, ok, call me crazy [cos i am and everyone else calls me crazy], but i thing it would actually be a good idea. Also maybe in loads and loads of years it could evolve into something hwere we can actualy teach our snails stuff. like yes or no. or more simple things. what do u all think?


sophie

[Kevin]

Training

What would this involve? How would it work?

Idea sounds good though...

[bookitten]

exactly. i dunno how it would work! maybe a bit physically and a bit mentally. thats 1 of the reasons i posted it on here! to see what everyone thought!

[Kevin]

Im not really sure what I think

The idea's good, but It does sound a bit strange to train Snails, I think I would need more info on how they could be trained and what it would accomplish

[Paul]

This isn't such a bad idea if you look at it from another angle. Perhaps we can learn the extent of their abilities, such as range of smell, decision making, ability to learn and ability to navigate. You'd have to come up with some ingenious snail-compatible activities though...

[natrat84]

Training snails? pmsl........ I do think we could learn alot about how a snail's mind works though if we could work out reliable ways of doing it.

[Deleted]

CIRCUS SNAILS! ;D

[Leah]

Well they can learn because I always put the food in the same place and now Eric sits there if he's hungry and ran out of food.

[natrat84]

My babies always wake up around 6-7pm for their dinner as thats when I always feed them (and I used to wake the babies to eat) The other night when me and Jas went out, got home about 10pm most of them were sat waiting pmsl. They do have some sense, but I'm not sure you can 'train' them as such

[Arno]

Here is an idea of some training/experiments you can do:
www.weichtiere.at/Mollusks/Schnecken/sinne.html

[Deleted]

wow the grunting snail that sounds so cool

[anjieburdett]

Can a snail really crawl over a razor blade edge without slicing its foot in half then - i wouldn't like to try it.

[Paul]

Yes, supposedly they can, you see it mentioned a lot as an "amazing fact".

[Annelie]

One of my fulicas, Konrad, can nod and shake his head on my command hehe. Though he's slow and just follows my finger, but he does it anyway! ;D

[bookitten]

[glow=red,2,300]LMAO[/glow]

lotsofsnails said:

CIRCUS SNAILS! ;D

[Andy]

One thing that could be tried is pavlovian learning. Pavlov (around 1900) had a bell ring just before food was given to a dog, and after some time of this training the dog gave the 'food' response (producing more saliva) upon hearing the bell, even without food present.

Would snails or slugs be able to learn this way? It shouldn't be too hard to test. Food is just any food they like. Instead of a bell, one might best use something with a strong smell (as eyesight isn't good) but not food and not harmful for them. Maybe some wood drenched in some perfume? (The smell should be strong enough to reach the snails/slugs where they sit!) Then put the bit of wood in the tank, and 15mins (or something) later add some food near it. If you 'train' the creatures like this -- will they end up heading for the perfumed wood even when there isn't any food around (yet)?

It'd be interesting to know if snails/slugs are clever enough to learn this! Unfortunately I currently don't have any myself but others might try. Good luck if you do!

-A

[Paul]

Doesn't sound like a bad idea in principle but I think the experiment worked because he trained the dogs hearing sense to associate with food, rather than just the smell.

I'm just thinking that using a smell instead of sound would be a little like tempting them out with one food and then feeding another. They would associate the smell with the food itself. Obviously using a non-food smell may make the experiment worthwhile but I can't help thinking that you need 2 separate senses.

If you always smelled perfume around bananas you would assume that is what they smelled of. And we know that snails can remember food smells for 4 months (well a study showed Helix aspersa could).

But I do like the idea in principle, if only there was a way to adapt it or construct a similar experiment. For instance is it possible to touch them in a particular and set way, then feed. So that, touching them will provoke a feeding response.

[Andy]

Paul, I see your point. One could also argue though that food already has a taste/smell that the snail may know, so that the perfume is still something that is learned. Hm... let's compare:

- If a snail always felt the stroke of (say) a feather when cucumber was coming up it would assume that is what cucumber feels like. ?? This seems unlikely... Cucumber has its own feel.
- If a snail always smelt (say) musk when cucumber was coming up it would assume that is what cucumber... well, yes, smells like. Or at least, what it smells like before it starts smelling like trusty old cucumber!

But then in the feather case, maybe cucumber first 'feels like a feather', and then like cucumber, to a snail?! Maybe dog food 'sounds' like a bell to a pavlov-trained dog?

It's confusing... But I agree that using two different senses at least seems more clear. What manner of touching a snail could be used? It depends on what they can tell the difference between... can a snail distinguish between being stroked by a feather and by a human finger?

Also, what feeding response are we looking for? A dog produces extra spit. Not sure snails do anything comparable. But maybe you can notice it wants to eat because it goes to a certain spot. If you could stroke it with a feather and it would head off for a particular trained spot to pick up its dinner... that would be most impressive!

[natrat84]

I can tell when mine are hungry/looking for food. They slime slower than usual with eyes pointed down slightly, feelers are feeling, and if I handle them they will rasp at my hand. After eating they slime a bit faster (or if too full just sit looking fat) eye stalks up tall and don't really 'feel' for food.
I have always fed mine at the same time each day and the babies cottoned on quickly. They wake up about the time I will feed them, and the past couple of nights 1 of my big tigers has started this too. So they do relate things to food, in my snails case its the time/daylight (or peace and quiet as kids go to bed!!)

[Andy]

That's great if you can tell that way. And no small feat of them to synchronise with feeding times. Leah said her snail learned the feeding /place/... (Which species is this, btw?)

So snails have quite good time- and space-tracking skills, precise enough that they can hinge associations onto them. Yet these two are also kind of 'natural' types of cue. Perfume odour or a specific kind of touch may be harder for them to single out and associate with food... Who knows?

Yet another (and harder?) challenge would be to train some behaviour other than feeding. But what? They can't jump burning hoops. Maybe climbing on top another snail. If they can distinguish that from climbing atop a rock... Or: hiding, burrowing? It's a more complex (and slow!) experiment though, as you'd have to produce a cue, and then 'reward' them (with food) only if they do what you want them to do...

[sophie]

hey. what happened to this thread? I thought this was all quite interesting.
1 idea i had was that someone [me?] or well, alot of people [if you like] could make a 'course' or circuit for them to go around. with stuff like loo rolls to climb through or something with foil or cling wrap over, and then through a pool of water then round a corner or something. then at the end give them food? then do this everyday
or another idea is that [this is 4 the people who give their snails food at a set time] u cud make a circuit that had alot of bends in it and a little itty bit of food on every turn, but put it on a flat surface so they would have to smell their way there or something. i dunno. more ideas anyone?

[sophie]

oh yeah and that last idea on that post was for people who fed their snails at a set time because they cud make the snails a little hungry to improve how they act.

[sophie]

I JUST HAD A BRILLIANT IDEA! you could make ur snail know the difference of banana and cucumber by putting the head of 1 or ur snails ander a [not really, but slightly] cold tap. then straightaway give it some cucumber. then after a while rinse ur snails head under a [not really, but slightly] hot tap. then give it some banana! do this everyday for ages.
then maybe have a dish of cold and hot water and the snail can poke round a little in both then it goes inb 1 or the other which meens the snail wants to eat 1 of those foods.

[Val]

Hmmmm

[sophie]

eep!