Anyone know what this is? (Blurry photo)

[sparrow]

After Snaggle passed and while I was removing his body from his shell, this odd orange, spiky and hard "object" came out as well.
Sorry for such a blurry image, but I was upset and only took one shot. It was almost perfectly round with little spikes and very hard.
Just wondering what is may have been.




Edit to add this larger image of what was likely a "silica stone".
This is exactly what it looked like, but no bigger than this "O".

[Zorst]

Very strange and I'm not really sure from the photo, was it stone like as in something from the bedding in his tank or something of a similar structure to his shell?

Zorst

[sparrow]

No. There was nothing like it in the soil. The tank had only pure topsoil. I suspect it was some sort of calcium deposit or perhaps urine that crystalized? It was as hard as a stone. I pinched it with the tweezers and it didn't do anything.
I really wish I had taken a better shot of it, but I was freaking out removing his little body from the shell. Thank heavens, it came out clean, but a small part ripped and not sure if this was in him or along side. If it was something in his intestines, I could see this obstructing the passage and may have been the cause of his untimely passing. Wish I had saved it, but I didn't know what it was and got rid of it ASAP, in the event it was some sort of parasite.

[sparrow]

Look on the page for the orange, spiky "silica stone." That's exactly what it looked like, but the size of a glass pinhead.
pixgood.com/silica-stone.html

Further searching validated what I suspected. However, I never fed "corn gluten or soy bean hulls" to Snaggle or anything not fresh, except fish flakes and calcium.

Silicate Stones
The mechanism of formation of silicate stones (Figure 6) is unknown; however, there may be a relationship between this type of stone and the dietary intake of silicates, silica acid, and magnesium silicate. The formation of these stones has been linked to the consumption of large amounts of corn gluten and soy bean hulls which are high in silicates. German Shepherds, Old English Sheepdogs, and Golden and Labrador Retrievers are the most affected breeds.
On the below link, open up Diagnostics: and then, "Types of Urinary Stones" - Figure 6. Photograph of silica stones. (black & white) That's what it was.
www.acvs.org/small-animal/urinary-stones

[muddydragon]

I'm sorry to hear about snaggle but this is interesting.

Did you everg feed him food with calcium mixed in or sprinkled on top? i wonder if it is a calcium oxalate stone

[sparrow]

May 19, 2015 20:35:25 GMT muddydragon said:

I'm sorry to hear about snaggle but this is interesting.

Did you everg feed him food with calcium mixed in or sprinkled on top? i wonder if it is a calcium oxalate stone

Thank you.

Sprinkled sparingly every 3 days, but only on broccoli - that was the only way he would eat his calcium. Never saw him near the cuttlebone. However, I believe you are 100% correct.
Much smaller and more orange and uniform in the spikes: scienceroll.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/calciumoxalatemonohydrate.jpg

Now that I've learned the results of "sprinkling", future snail(s) will only get a cuttlebone, whether they like it or not.

Actually glad I found the stone - it's sad, but knowing is always better than not knowing.

Thank you again.

[Zorst]

Very interesting information. Sparrow to get snails to rasp cuttle bones a good way is to damp some fish flakes n rub them into the cuttle bone. The snails go after this n then continue to rasp the cuttle bone.

Zorst

[etana]

May 19, 2015 20:35:25 GMT muddydragon said:

I'm sorry to hear about snaggle but this is interesting.

Did you everg feed him food with calcium mixed in or sprinkled on top? i wonder if it is a calcium oxalate stone

Muddy, are there other known cases of snails dying from this? It's not that I have doubts about this particular case, I just wonder if we should start spreading the word. It's been known that it's problematic if snails don't get to choose exactly how much calcium they want, but if the result can be as serious as death, snail owners need to be warned. 

[muddydragon]

i'm mainly basing it on a few things paul has said in the past (and what is said on the pet snails page) bascially it's like gall stones (but in the blood i believe he said) considering you can die from gall stones then yes i think its very possible however not many people disect or remove their snails bodies when they die so you wont often hear of them dying like this just a mystery death.

[sparrow]

I was very squeamish to remove the body, but I wanted to keep his shell and wanted to do it quickly before the intolerable smell began.
It was by accident that I found the stone and my first thought was a calcium deposit of some sort. When I found the images of the silica stones, it was a perfect match.
I was always worried he was not getting enough calcium and it wasn't until last night, while I was cleaning out Snaggle's tank, I remembered putting calcium powder in the topsoil as well.
The soil is likely where I went overboard.

I feel terrible about it, but hopefully someone else will benefit from knowing this down the road.

[sparrow]

May 20, 2015 13:49:07 GMT etana said:

May 19, 2015 20:35:25 GMT muddydragon said:

I'm sorry to hear about snaggle but this is interesting.

Did you everg feed him food with calcium mixed in or sprinkled on top? i wonder if it is a calcium oxalate stone

Muddy, are there other known cases of snails dying from this? It's not that I have doubts about this particular case, I just wonder if we should start spreading the word. It's been known that it's problematic if snails don't get to choose exactly how much calcium they want, but if the result can be as serious as death, snail owners need to be warned. 

Agreed.
If you go through my older posts, I often wrote about using calcium powder as opposed to the cuttlebone. Hard lesson learned.
In retrospect, he was not pooping enough for the amount he was eating either. Where and how that little stone was lodged will remain a mystery, but wherever it was, it blocked something badly enough to kill him.