LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 19, 2006 20:28:59 GMT
I'm a bit, well a lot, concerned about Magenta the baby suturalis. Since putting them into a bare tank (mite infestation in the viv led to us having to gut it and put them in temporary tubs for a while), she's continued to retract, so much so I'm thinking she might not last much longer. They've had the all clear for a few days now, maybe a week - but I'm keeping them in the bare tanks until I set the viv back up. But since becoming clear, she's continued to retract - she's nearly an inch back in her shell now and I've no idea what's causing it. So I was wondering, I dont have any spare small tanks without moving babies around - so would it be ok for the baby tigers (biggest about 2cm, smallest around 1.5cm) to go in with the margie babies (around 3-4cm)? I can then put Magenta in the tiny baby tank and see if we can bring her round a bit without the other biggies getting heavy handed with her. And are there any other causes of retraction? She's been 100% healthy from day one, biggest of the two suturalis. Currently in with Boo, Nigel, and the smithiis and panthera. And out of interest, would it have any connection to the black wiggly like marks on her foot?
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Moracai
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Post by Moracai on Jun 19, 2006 20:36:33 GMT
I found that when I had my fulica in a bare tank, they started retracting, like they were freaked out or something. When they went back into the regular tank, where they had places to hide, they stopped doing it. Could it maybe be that they are upset with the surroundings?
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 19, 2006 20:40:06 GMT
I hope so, I think what I'll do is keep them in the smaller tanks but put some coir in and a plantpot or two, and see if that helps. That way if the mites come back (unlikely I hope!) then I dont have to gut the viv again. Do you think that's a good idea?
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jun 19, 2006 21:26:24 GMT
retraction can also be caused by the mites, this is what happened to a couple of my margie babies when i had a mite problem, even when they were rid of mites, the margies did not recover :-( Another thing is your panthera, the black squiggly marks on her foot sound like scars to me, it could be your panthera is picking on Magenta, this is what also happened with my remaining margie bubs, they developed scars like this and retracted and died one by one, i didn't know what was going on until i was down to my last 2 bubs and then saw the horrific site of a panthera rasping away at a helpless baby, and more recently have seen them doing the same thing to a Jeuvenile margie the same size and bigger than themselves! so my panthera are on their own now, and no margies have had a problem since, I don't know whether you'll get Magenta to come round again, but it may be an idea to seperate your panthera off from any other snails Good luck x
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jun 19, 2006 21:27:43 GMT
ps. i don't see a problem with mixing your margies and tigers
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Moracai
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Post by Moracai on Jun 19, 2006 21:30:06 GMT
I also keep my margies with my tigers, and they all seem happy together.
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 19, 2006 21:37:07 GMT
Right, that's what I thought Sarah, so temporarily I moved all the big margies and Phil (the panthera who has been seen rasping the big one's shells and is always all over other snails) into one tank, and put Magenta, Nigel, Gary, Sally, and Selmo into another with the two stripey lads from the classifieds boards (smithii by the looks of things). I did it mainly to stop the risk of biggies squashing littlies, and also get Phil out of the way of the little ones. Magenta is now out partially and eating. Once I've got the fulica tank up and running, I'd planned to move all the panthera and smithiis into one tank, and shall stick to margies and tigers in the big viv. Phew - what a palaver - now all I have to do is get all the margies back in the big viv before my tigers come - as I've only got one spare tank until I put them back in!
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 19, 2006 21:38:04 GMT
Ps. Thanks folks - I have a habit of overreacting sometimes but I was really worried about her
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Post by copigeon on Jun 19, 2006 22:14:13 GMT
A bit off topic so forgive me, but as sarahs mentioned the smithii biting.
I have a feeling that smithii/panthera "biting" thing might be sexual. Theyre the most sexually interested snails I keep, and I notice the behaviour between smithii/panthera during mating "rasping" on each other. Yet not with other species of snail.
Im wondering if maybe its a prelude to mating, like a mood setter to tell the selected partner what is desired. But with non panthera/smithii its not reciprocated. And accidents happen?
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jun 20, 2006 10:11:32 GMT
I haven't had any problem with my smithii only panthera, you are absolubtly right in that when a snail is 'frisky' this being panthera they do indeed rasp at the snail they are trying to seduce but i have only ever witnessed them rasping the shell and lip.. But on occasions when the snail has died as a result the panthera has actually got the snail on its back and just rasped and rasped away at its tail and foot until the snail retracts as far back as it can go and certainly does look like canabalism
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jun 20, 2006 10:12:06 GMT
Ps. Thanks folks - I have a habit of overreacting sometimes but I was really worried about her You're not over reacting, it could have been very serious, glad shes eating though
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Post by section8angel on Jun 20, 2006 10:22:17 GMT
I hope she perks up more soon Lisa Bad Magenta, stop making her worry lol. Do I have to send Elvira round to make you behave!? My tiger bubs are in with all my margie ones and are loving it lol. They hitch rides on the margies all the time!
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Post by copigeon on Jun 20, 2006 10:31:09 GMT
I find my smithii act in a similar way, but Ive seen them doing this on the neck part of the snail.. which is why I wondered if it was mating behaviour gone too far. I have certainly found they picked on an older irredali also, which was on its way out... so it could very well be canabalism of the small and weak. Lisa Ive just noticed the picture of them in the other thread, youve done incredably well with the margies beautiful shells. I hope your fix to the retraction problem works out well.
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 20, 2006 12:21:27 GMT
Thanks so much for all the help (and nice comments on the babies) Magenta's not one of the Boycie babies, she's one of the pet shop suturalis Eric picked up for some of us at the beginning of the year, she's always been the bigger of the two (Kathy got one at the same time and he lives here temporarily), and a greedy guts, and has always had new growth and a nice chunky body. Sadly this morning she's retracted further, although the other snails seem to be much better (Nigel - Kathy's one - had retracted maybe half a cm tops - but is now back to normal). When I thought she was eating she was just coming out to move away - and she's been hanging from the roof since. She wont even come out for me now. Phil the panthera is always all over other snails, and I have seen him rasp on their shells, and sometimes their body (top of the neck etc) but I always move him if I see him do it. Obviously now he's not in there with them, but we'd already planned for the smithii/pantheras to have their own tank, so once this big viv is ready for them to go back in, the margies will move in there on their own. Until the tigers finish their quarantine. Argh I'm sharing my life story and wittering on now - but really all I had to say is that she's not looking any better, there's no food gone from where I put her to eat, and she's retracted further in. I'm really shocked she's got this poorly so quickly, obviously now we've removed him all we can do is hope she pulls round. But judging by how she is today, I dont think she will
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 20, 2006 12:23:34 GMT
Oh and just to add - the Boycie babies have their own nursery tank, and haven't shared it with Magenta at any time, so they're all fine.
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Post by section8angel on Jun 20, 2006 12:28:21 GMT
I've got my fingers crossed for her Lisa And everything else I can cross lol.
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Post by sonicsnail on Jun 20, 2006 12:38:38 GMT
I can understand why you put you put them in a bare tank. Was it completely bare? Magenta maybe retracting because it is too dry. I once had to put my snails in a completely bare tank due to mites. Of course this was temporary. They too seemed to dislike it and I often found it got rather dry much quicker. So, I had to keep spraying them. You could put some capillary matting in the bottom to hold the moisture? If you are unsure that this could attract the mites, you could replace the matting once every two days or something? It's just a suggestion. They may not be too dry. Just that it was the only thing i could think of that hasn't already been mentioned. I hope Magenta gets better.
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 20, 2006 13:06:01 GMT
Thanks - I think the bare tank is adding to the problem, but I'm going to put some coir in for them tonight and see how she takes that. The bare tank tends to get wet easily despite ventilation holes, so I dont think it's dryness that's causing it - I think it's just been all too much stress. Being rasped (obviously those black wiggly lines must be scars), being moved into the big tank, then being taken back out and put in a bare one - might just be too stressy for her right now. On a plus note, I went to check on her and she's moved a little bit - her skirts are out and part of her head is underneath a piece of cucumbier, although I doubt she's eating it as it's the skin side down, and she doesn't eat the skin She's probably trying to bury so I'll sort the coir out for them tonight. Thanks for all the help and advice, it's much appreciated!
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Post by felix93 on Jun 20, 2006 13:12:45 GMT
Lisa, I am sorry to hear about Magenta, hope she will pull through.
Just one thing, I know it might not help, but still worth to try. It's regarding feeding. I had snails retracting in the past (not because of mites, but was told it's down to the characters etc), I tried to give hemp and they took on brilliantly. With about a few weeks, the snails that're meant to have the characrers retracting are not retracting at all. I know it's not magic, but worth to try.
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 20, 2006 13:47:36 GMT
I've got some chick mash and pumpkin seeds, would that do until I can get some hemp?
But I've just checked on her, and she's now on top of the cucumber, with her skirts drawn up round her mouth - I think she might be eating! ;D
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Post by felix93 on Jun 20, 2006 16:34:18 GMT
I've got some chick mash and pumpkin seeds, would that do until I can get some hemp? I don't know Lisa, but I suppose you just put everything in and see what she likes. I use hemp with mine is just because I know mine tend to get "high" with hemp. Daz's snail mix is good too IMO. I hope she is eating, keep my fingers, eyes, toes crossed for you.
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 20, 2006 18:32:42 GMT
She's been a bit more active since I posted, I made some chick mash up and placed her near it, but she just slimed through it and onto the cuttlefish for a bit, then into a corner to sleep again. Putting coir and a plant pot in after the football Thanks so much to you all for the lovely messages
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 22, 2006 13:37:11 GMT
Well today she's worse, more retracted, cant see her mantle at all, and she hasn't come out fully as she did yesterday, she's only got some skirts showing, her head didn't make it out. I am really worried now but there's nothing I can do. I've placed her on some food again, we'll have to see if she eats. I dont think she actually did yesterday after all as none seemed to be missing from where I placed her. All other snails in with her are fine, no bad appetites, no retracted bodies, eating well and very active, so whatever it is aint catching.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Jun 22, 2006 15:26:47 GMT
I just lost one last night to the same thing sorry, i know what its like
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Jun 23, 2006 13:35:59 GMT
Pardon the language in advance - oh f*ck, I think it's a collapsed mantle, and she's further retracted today, with her insides hanging out. It would explain why her red tip looks see through now, her body's slipping down She must have had one of the biggies hanging off her before I split them up. Excuse crap pics, taken with flash on they came out too bright, flash off and they were blurry. I think you can see though that the only part of her body other than her foot you can see if that lump (has a hole it in that's closed, think it's her breathing hole?), so she must have either retracted way in and had some weird turning inside out problem, or collapsed her mantle. There is no normal attached mantle visible, if it's not collapsed it must be further back than possible to see What do I do? Do I leave her, or (god help me) help her along?
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