what's happening to this world?

[LisaLQ]

I've just finished comforting my eldest because someone followed her home from the shop. Needless to say she wont be going to the shop alone again, if at all. He's well known round here, got a reputation as a you know what, but dont know how true that is as he's mentally ill and it might just be rumours/gossip/nastiness. Either way she just had to run home in fits of tears because he waited for her outside the shop and then when she ran a different way he went the way he knew she would have to go to come home. She's literally pooing herself, and she's very grown up and brave, so it's really shook her.

Hubby's going to have a word with him/his mum (as he lives with his parents) and let them know under no uncertain terms is he to go anywhere near her again. I wanted the police involved but hubby says he's mentally ill so to give him the benefit of the doubt. But she says she doesn't want to play out again now.

She's 11 years old, looks a little bit older though, but even so - noticably a child. But if she cant even nip over to the bloody shop at her age - what is this world coming to?

A shaking and seething ready to b*tchslap anyone who goes near her daughter, Lisa. *cries*

[teresa]

dont cry lisa i would get the police involved as anyone who can do anything to a child must have some kind of mental illness, and proberly would not listen to your hubby or his mother anyway, if you have heard he has a reputation, then i would not take any chances, as it could be someone elses child next time and as if being followed isnt enough at your daughters age, it could be more serious next time for another child and if it was me and done nothing and it happened again i would feel really bad that i had done nothing , dont know if it makes any sense

[Moracai]

I completely agree with Teresa.
If it was one of mine, I would be contacting the police. Just even if it means it's on record somewhere that he has exhibited this strange behaviour.
It could have been completely harmless, as you say, he does have a mental illness, and he could have been making an attempt at play, or followed out of curiosity. You just don't know. And that is the point, no-one knows what the intention was, be it good, or not.
You have every right to show your concern. It's a strange old world we live in nowadays.

[Arno]

Yes I agree,i would get it reported to the police as well.If everybody is going to give him the benefit of the doubt soon there won't be any children outside playing at all.It doesn't matter if he is mentally ill or not,the effect is the same.
If it would've been my daughter anybody following her wouldn't get any benefits at all.

[LisaLQ]

Hubby wont have it, he says he cant be sure whether daughter was just scared because of what she heard and whether or not she was actually followed. Hubby's going to ask the fountain of all knowledge on our street what the story is with this bloke, then have words tomorrow.

Ok, just read that bit to hubby and he says he'll reconsider depending on what he finds out about this bloke. The problem is, hubby says this man regularly wanders about and stands on street corners staring at nowt (but the neighbourhood kids all swear he's "dodgy" but that's kids, you know?). I've said either way someone has to have a word with his mum/carer as if he is dodgy, he's going to get it from me (and the police) for doing what he did, and if he isn't - one day he's going to end up in trouble for his odd behaviour.

Truth of the matter is - if he is this mentally ill that he stands on street corners and scares kids - someone should be bloody watching him!

[copigeon]

lisalq said:

Truth of the matter is - if he is this mentally ill that he stands on street corners and scares kids - someone should be bloody watching him!

Cant agree with that.
Perfectly innocent behaviour is badly recieved because of the age of paranoia partially created by the media. People who are genuinely ill should not be victimised for thier behaviour.
By all means show caution until youve spoken with his parents, and I know youre obviously distressed at seeing your daughter upset and everyone thinks the worst.
But wandering around staring at nothing on street corners doesnt make you a criminal, and shouldnt mean the guy cant have his own freedom?

Childrens playground talk turns the neighbourhood tramp into a serial killer, the old man down the road into a murdering rapist. Gossip, spawned by childish lack of reality and fabrication based on the media and childrens overactive imagination. If its children who have said the guy is dodgy take it with a huge pinch of salt?
Christ I can remember some of the things we used to say about the poor guy whos garden backed onto the school playing field. He really didnt deserve that, we didnt know any better.
People should show more compassion.

**note to add,
I really didnt want to reply to this thread for personal reasons, but I find it hard to hear that sort of comment and not reply.
I understand youre upset Lisa, and I know why youre worried/angry, but make sure you have all the facts before jumping the gun.

[Arno]

copigeon said:

But wandering around staring at nothing on street corners doesnt make you a criminal, and shouldnt mean the guy cant have his own freedom?

Following a child home is not what I see as staring at nothing.Agreed everybody should have their freedom even if it's viewed as odd by other people.But should children not have the freedom to play outside or go to the corner shop without being scared by somebody who might (or not) mean any harm ?

I also agree that the media can make people more paranoid than they should be but unfortunatly there have been cases were this was more than justified.

[deadmansfinger]

we definately live in a culture that is more aware of child abuse etc than previously. I watched a TV program on it and it stated that it has always went on, it's just that it's more in the news now whereas previously it was hushed up and not talked about. Also mediums like the internet bring this sort of thing more into the public eye than previous years. It also told the story of an elderly gentleman who moved into a new area and chinese whispers led locals to believe he was a paedophile who has relocated to the area. eventually a mob went to his house, dragged him out and beat him badly (i think he died but cant recall) and it turned out he was just a nice old guy who had downsized his house when his wife died and tried to make a fresh start but someone started a rumour from nothing, and it grew etc etc with no basis at all.

with regards to this issue it's a difficult one to judge as you have to ask 'was he doing anything wrong' or did the girl just assume he was up to no good and over-react because of the reputation this guy has got.
Next question is is this guys reputation justified or not?

Seems to me to best option is to contact the police. If you go the family they could over-react to you going to their door and accusing their son of god knows what. Also if he does have a somewhat dubious history the family may deny it to protect him, whereas the police would undoubtedly know about him if he had "offended" in the past.

So basically let the professionals handle it. The police will know either way whether he is a threat or not. If he isn't you can tell your daughter and perhaps she can educate the other kids that they don't need to be afraid of this man and if he is then you will all know for sure.

Brian.

[copigeon]

My post was directly focused on lisas comment which Ive quoted in the post.
That if hes standing on street corners looking weird he should be watched. Not that someone followed her daughter home.

You say should children not have the freedom to go outside and play without being worried by the weird behaviour of people not like them?
I find groups of children outside playing quite threatening. Should not children be watched or kept indoors so I dont have to cross the road to avoid that old can thier kicking? Should they be allowed to cluster and shout and mooch around like little thugs?
I dont find ill people standing around threatening.

Children find silly things scarey, children make stories and live out films like candyman. Should ill people be looked on in suspicion because of children?

[Arno]

Actually I was talking about children age up to,say,12.I don't see the threat coming from a group of toddlers playing.
I know groups of teenagers can be quite threatening or annoying and you got a point there.
Nothing suspicious about the mentally ill and if they go about their business ,who cares?
But to bounce a question back:should a story be discarded because it was a child telling it?

[LisaLQ]

No offense Em, but this is not some silly child making things up.

This guy:

1. Deliberately nudged my daughter in the shop and muttered at her.
2. Stood at the shop door waiting for her to finish in there.
3. Went outside, walked part way down the road and stood and waited for her to catch up, making hand gestures and mumbling.
4. When she crossed the road and went a different way, he cut her off at the snicket and waited for her.
5. When she got to the snicket she ran, crying, all the way home. The man stood and watched her til she was out of sight.

He stands on the street corner watching the kids in the park too, and even then I still said I was willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. We've not involved the police yet, although it is definitely an option. Whether or not his reputation is deserved, this man was harrassing a child. Whether or not his illness is to blame, he was harrassing a child. Whether or not he was "safe", he should have been with a carer, as he is obviously unable to control his actions and keep HIMSELF out of trouble, as he is getting a reputation - whether deserved or not.

I'm sorry but you're quite obviously anti-kids, but you dont know how grown up and responsible my daughter is - she doesn't hang round on street corners harrassing anyone, threatening anyone, kicking cans. She plays out with her sister or cousins, in the playground on the end of my road. Dont assume all kids are yobs and deserve following around by men who cant control themselves - whether mentally or sexually.

[deadmansfinger]

snailwatcher said:

But to bounce a question back:should a story be discarded because it was a child telling it?

no but it should be investigated before any accusations are made especially when others are whispering stuff about this guy that might not be warranted and the girl might have these thoughts in her head thus making a simple act become something more cynical.

Adults would do this too though not just kids.


Brian.

[deadmansfinger]

lisalq said:

No offense Em, but this is not some silly child making things up.

This guy:

1. Deliberately nudged my daughter in the shop and muttered at her.
2. Stood at the shop door waiting for her to finish in there.
3. Went outside, walked part way down the road and stood and waited for her to catch up, making hand gestures and mumbling.
4. When she crossed the road and went a different way, he cut her off at the snicket and waited for her.
5. When she got to the snicket she ran, crying, all the way home. The man stood and watched her til she was out of sight.

He stands on the street corner watching the kids in the park too, and even then I still said I was willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. We've not involved the police yet, although it is definitely an option. Whether or not his reputation is deserved, this man was harrassing a child. Whether or not his illness is to blame, he was harrassing a child. Whether or not he was "safe", he should have been with a carer, as he is obviously unable to control his actions and keep HIMSELF out of trouble, as he is getting a reputation - whether deserved or not.

I'm sorry but you're quite obviously anti-kids, but you dont know how grown up and responsible my daughter is - she doesn't hang round on street corners harrassing anyone, threatening anyone, kicking cans. She plays out with her sister or cousins, in the playground on the end of my road. Dont assume all kids are yobs and deserve following around by men who cant control themselves - whether mentally or sexually.

I think Emma was showing that there are 2 sides to every story? Sorry if I got that wrong Emma.

Bascially if you had gone to the police if might have been sorted by now but any threads like this are going to create controversy. I think any situation where a child might be in danger should be investigated by the police.

I have worked with adults with learning difficulties and sometimes something they do/say can be taken the wrong way when infact they just do not know how to communicate with us.

then again it could be something far more sinister, you just never know..........

Brian.

[LisaLQ]

I dont think anyone has really read my messages. We have not involved the police! We have not told anyone on the street about it! We haven't stoned him, egged his house, or beaten him up! We haven't even accused him of being a paedo - we have said it is probably just gossip but his family need to know he's getting a reputation and scaring kids in the process. We have not said we're accusing him of anything - we have said we need to know who he is, what's going on, and what they intend to do about it - because this kind of behaviour is not on, whether innocent or not.

We also said it is possible she over-reacted, and we are going to find out what his history is before we do anything. We've not got a lynch mob, we're not going to get him arrested, we're going to find out what's going on and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Is that so bloomin' unreasonable?

[deadmansfinger]

no but letting the police sort it would be the sensible approach. thats all I was saying. get it sorted and get a straight answer rather than lots of what ifs? If I am being honest that's what I would have been doing rather than posting it on here.

Please dont take offence that's just my opinion.

Brian.

[LisaLQ]

Sorry, replied at the same time there Brian.

I think Emma was trying to say it was all in my daughter's head. And that we should leave him to it. Personally, unless you've got kids and have that responsibility, it's not fair to say that - because you dont know how it feels to see your daughter that scared. And accusing her of being more threatening than a 50+ year old man following young girls about, is just plain unfair.

[copigeon]

I need to make it absolutely clear my post is related to that one sole comment, on a mentally ill person who may be standing around looking funny.

Not the situation with lisas daughter. As it seems that theyve been tied together.

Its natural to be defensive of ones children, and I assure you I am not anti children. I just find the jump to conclusion'ness of this sort of situation difficult to see.

Arno: You have nice 12 year olds in your area? I have had 10 year old children throw stones at my bike when stationary in traffic. Age means nothing these days (at least not here?).
I never said discard what I child says, but a childs pov is more likely to be distorted than that of an adult? Its fact that kids blow things hugely out of proportion. You cant tell me otherwise because I remember the childrens toilets at school having to be surpervised after the younger years decided the candyman was in the mirrors and they couldnt go in there alone?
Please... tell me children arnt subject to mental persuasion?

Lisa I would agree with Brian, I would contact the police see what they say and leave it at that. If he does have a record with them something will be done. If he doesnt then it will be recorded so if he does it again if it is something to be worried about it'll show up?
Just please please please dont associate my comments about children to be anything related to your own? I was merely offering the anti to Arnos comment. Bristols full of little thugs. If your little girl is anything like you Im sure shes a delight, who will grow up with plenty of slimey pets

[copigeon]

Lisa you daft mare As if I'd think your daughter was a little thug?
Tch,

[LisaLQ]

I'm sorry - I'm just over-reacting myself. Guess it runs in the family somewhat. Just didn't want folks thinking I was so erm...what's the word...when someone is against a certain type of person/lifestyle/thing erm..you know what I mean. We deliberately didn't contact the police because he might just be a lonely man who likes to see kids having fun, and if he is mentally ill then he's not to blame for his actions and I'd hate to drag him into something he didn't deserve. But my over-protective mother syndrome has kicked in, and when she came in wailing I wanted to rush out and tw*t the poor sod with his walking stick. It's a mum thing, I cant help it.

We have a lady on our street who works with the mentally ill and disabled kids, and she knows everyone round here very well (she's a diamond, she helps everyone out). Hubby knows her well, and says he'll have a quiet word alone with her and see if she knows him. He really doesn't want to involve the police, not just because it'd mean Em making a statement, but because it wouldn't be fair on this fella if he was just wanting to say hello or something. His mum is apparently as old as the hills, so he doesn't want to upset her without any basis either.

Do you kind of get where I'm coming from? I'm in the middle here. Part of me knows Em looks quite a bit older than she is, and she's already had some leering from teenage lads, so she's already nervous about going out because of that. The other part of me thinks she's also hormonal and easily upset, and may be making a mountain out of a molehill.

Kathy reminded me of when we were kids, and there was a local man who had disabilities and we were all scared of him. Kids dont understand that some folks are different to others and might not be bad.

Oh, and my kids have never watched anything scarier than Haunted Mansion with Eddie Murphy on it. And even then they cowered behind cushions Candyman would induce hysterics, I wont even let them watch Jaws *lol*

[sam]

Lisa, I hope your daughter is feeling better. I think you are doing the right thing with everything you have decided to do and I dont at all think you are anti anyone as you have always been nothing but kind when I have told you about my 2 girls who have mental disabilitiesxx

[KathyM]

lisalq said:

I wont even let them watch Jaws *lol*

Just to lighten the mood (Lisa's had my advice, rubbish as it is), do you remember, we watched Jaws as about 7 year olds? Well I found a copy in the charity shop, and 'cos it was a PG I thought we'd be okay - it having been years since we saw it. Don't do it. Biggest mistake we ever made. Connie went 2 weeks without a bath and having to have us go with her to the toilet. The lads loved it, but Connie? God no, never, EVER, again.

[LisaLQ]

Thanks Sam

Kathy - being scared of Jaws is normal for kids, but remember me and ET? Everyone else was crying because they said he was so cute and it was a sad film, I was crying because I was crapping myself.

I was 6 or 7 to be fair. Either way, he still scares the hell out of me.

[KathyM]

What purpose does such an elongated finger do if it's not for taking you away to the far reaches of outer space for an anal probe? Don't trust the little blighter. LOL.

[gastropodgirl]

Hmm have never thought of E.T in that way before,but it all makes sense now,lol.

[Leah]

I think the best bet would be to talk to the mans carer. She could probably explain why he did it and stop him doing it again. He may be ill so it's not his fault but that doesn't make it ok. If she's not co-oprative then you should go to the police. They're professionals. They're not going to go storming in accusing him of rape but they will be able to make sure he's no harm to your daughter. Just be calm and adult about it.