apple
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Post by apple on Nov 8, 2005 23:38:44 GMT
Nice to read your experiences. Actually I change the food almost daily: the biscuits are almost all the time the same, but then I mix with various kinds of meat. I give them fruit, which they love as a supplement. My dogs biscuits are : For example, I´m giving them this time « Medium Mature» for dogs with over seven years old. Ingredients:Maize,rice,poultry meat, maize flour, dehydrated pork protein, animal fats, maize gluten, poultry liver, beet pulp, vegetable oils ( including borage oil), yeast, minerals, fructo-oligosaccharides, fish oil, trace-elements ( including chelated trace-elements), sodium polyphosphate, L- tyrosine, yeasts extract ( source of manno-oligo-saccharides), egg powder, L-lysine, hydrolysed crustaceans ( source of glucosamine), hydrolysed cartilage ( source of chondroitin) and vitamins. Average analysis:Protein 25%, Fat-12%, Ash 5.0%, fibre 2.9%, moisture 9 %, Calcium 0.8%, Phosphorus 0.6 %, Sodium 0.35% magnesium 0.09 % Vitamins per kg- vit A-18000 IU, D3-1200IU, E-500mg, C-200mg and B1-12mg Preservative- potassium sorbate, antioxidants: BHA, propyl gallate. Trace elements per kg- copper 23mg, Iron 160 mg, Manganese73 mg, Zinc-241 mg and selenium- 0.43 mg. Is it so bad? ;D I go with my dogs to the same vet, for years, she seems to be a nice professional, she recommended for my oldest dog, that has some urinary problems,Specific Renil. Ingredients:Cereals, oils and fats, fish and fish derivatives, vegetable protein extract, egg and egg derivatives, hydrolysed chicken protein, minerals, milk and milk derivatives and powdered cellulose. Contains no artificial colour or flavouring substance. Nutrient content per 100 gs: Protein 13,5 g ( source-: wheat, fish, potato protein, maize,eggs), fat 18g, fibre 2.0 g, ash 4,5 g, calcium 0.36g, phosphorus 0.25 g, potassium 0,9 g,sodium 0.13g, magnesium 0.063 g, copper( copper sulphate)0.36 g, vitamin A - 542 IU, vitamin D- 54 IU, vitamin E 25 mg. Antioxydant: BHT (E321). About sodium/ salt content, this 2 types of biscuits, have very low proportions even when another ingredients( that also has sodium) are included in that percentage. I just don´t know if it is a problem to feed snails with it? Don´t plants have also small amounts of sodium? Thanks.
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KathyM
Achatina tincta
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Post by KathyM on Nov 9, 2005 9:51:02 GMT
You can't really win when it comes to the prescription diet vs naturally preserved as there are no prescription diets on the market that don't have the 'orrible preservatives in (they're all tested on animals too). However it's a necessary evil I feel for those animals that do need a prescription diet - you can't go changing their foods. Although - vets *should* have a prescription recipe for each condition that you can homecook/prepare rather than paying £60 a sack for Hills/Waltham. I have to admit my biggest worry is that one of my cats or dogs ends up on a prescription diet as I always said I'd never ever feed Hills or Waltham (or Iams - *spits*).
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Post by sezzy5889 on Nov 9, 2005 10:20:43 GMT
What about eukanuba (dunno how you spell it) ?
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KathyM
Achatina tincta
Posts: 709
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Post by KathyM on Nov 9, 2005 13:09:08 GMT
Made by IAMS, do a Google search for "Iams Cruelty" - their animal testing goes beyond horrific. Same with Hills, Pedigree, etc. Uncaged (who I'm not keen on as a group but who have interesting info on their website) have a webpage where it lists "safe" ie. non-tested pet foods. www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm
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Post by sezzy5889 on Nov 9, 2005 13:59:31 GMT
Pedigree sucks, it's crap stuff, not neutritional at all
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Nov 9, 2005 17:21:23 GMT
apple, you have to ask yourself why your dog has a urinary problem. Urinary problems in cats and dogs are relatively new, years ago when most dogs were just given some raw mince and some dog meal for their supper or some cooked liver and dog meal urinary problems were hardly ever heard of. Most urinary problems in cats are the direct result result of feeding dried food!!!! Also most dried complete cat foods are far too high in protein which puts severe strain on their kidneys. Cats must get moisture in their food they do not drink enough to compensate for the lack of moisture. Complete dry dog foods are also for the most part far too high in protein. Dogs actually need very little protein they have a much bigger requirement for carbohydrates and fat. Too much protein leads to brittle bones, joint problems, kidney problems......... don't rely on your vet to tell you the truth, find out for yourself. Remind me sometime to tell you about my labradors ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Val
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Arno
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Post by Arno on Nov 9, 2005 17:36:34 GMT
Hey Val,why don't you tell us about your Labradors ears.....
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Post by section8angel on Nov 9, 2005 18:11:04 GMT
Oh yes I've seen that Iams site before. Thankfully it's too expensive for us to get anyway lol But we wouldn't anyway now we know about that.
Can't see the one we use on there.. or the one we used to use.
We have used some of those on there, tinned food ages ago, but we don't now as the shepherds can't stomach it lol Literally!
I think I've used that trill bird food before though! Only once though as the pet shop didn't have loose seed.
Our dogs get good carbs as they have pasta to stop the food going straight through them. The shepherds anyway, the lab gets most the tit bits lol.
What happened with your labs ears?
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apple
Archachatina degneri
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Post by apple on Nov 9, 2005 20:53:41 GMT
Actually my dogs have plenty of water to drink anytime they want, and I don´t give only dried food as I said on the last message. The home cooked food solution, is a lot more expensive, time waster and sometimes don´t have all ingredients- only if one has any kind of prescription, with all the ingredients included that dogs need, it´s possible and nice to do that. I would agree with that solution, if it has better results to my dogs welfare and if it´s possible to me to do that. If it isn´t I´ll give my dogs to someone else... They seem to be healthy, so it´s not an excuse to change diet, only my oldest dog, that is a she, has some problems because she got pregnant too early and then she had a cancer on her ovary,which had to be removed, as well as her ovary, which after that, caused a lot of problems with her metabolism, that affected globally her health... Thanks to share with us your ideas. I would like to know about your dog ears, Val.
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Val
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Post by Val on Nov 9, 2005 21:35:00 GMT
Hey Val,why don't you tell us about your Labradors ears..... Well as you asked O.k. I will. When he was a pup our labrador's ears became smelly and sticky inside, off to the vet who duly prescribed some ointment........£15. Ears seemed no better so back to the vet again, he said this problem sometimes recurs and prescribed more ointment...........another £15. Problem still there so I decided to get another opinion and see a different vet, she confirmed the diagnosis but this time took swabs of the ears and sent them away for examination...........£45!!! Back again for results of swabs.... which revealed excess ear wax due probably to an infection. The vet now suggested we started thinking about an operation to cure this problem, the operation apparently would help the ears to drain better, she said not to worry about the cost as I could pay it off a bit at a time if I wanted to. ........£250. I said I would think about it and left. I started searching around for other people who had the same problem with their dog/cat, and found to my absolute amazement that there were many many cases exactly the same as mine. Our labrador had in fact got ear mites causing his ears to produce excess wax, the antibiotic ointment prescribed by the vets has no effect whatsoever on ear mite. A few telephone calls and I found the "cure" it is a small bottle of powder (originally called canker powder) which kills the ear mite, and it cost me £5. It worked a treat, my lab has had no problems since!!! I purchased the powder from a pet shop. If my dog is sick I do not mind how much it costs to make him well again. the money isn't the issue, but the fact that the vets would have operated on my dog for no reason whatsoever!!! Surely a trained vet should be able to recognise ear mite!! I do not trust vets anymore, they are profiting at the expense of our pets. Our vet actually sells high protein cat foods...........and then charges you to treat the urinary problems that inevitably follow!!! This is no little back street practice either, they are generally very well thought of. Val
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Post by section8angel on Nov 9, 2005 22:02:42 GMT
Awww Glad to see he's ok now though. Stupid money grabbing people. What if the dog had had problems if he'd had the op? And then you'd found out he didn't need it? They could have been in the *%^& then! Good thing you did your research Canker eh vetnary?! *Loves James herriot books* lol Our vet isn't that bad thankfully. Only the one we see though, I have no idea about any of the others at the surgery. We only see the one mum worked for because we know he is trustworthy. He doesn't need the money, he sold the place so got enough lol. God knows how much we'll be paying when he goes though.. but then mum knows about most the illnesses, so if the vet tries to con us she can just shut him/her up LOL.
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apple
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Post by apple on Nov 9, 2005 23:44:40 GMT
Undoubtedly that some vets only see money, but others are fine. Mine is one of them ( last type lol) , even if she has a bit of bad temper loool, she´s good and trustworthy.
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KathyM
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Post by KathyM on Nov 12, 2005 16:39:30 GMT
Sadly cant trust my head vet at all because, like most vets, he gets commission for flogging unecessary prescription diets. We were recommended the Hills TD food for our cat, and a dental. So we booked him in, head vet told us he'd need prescription diet for life and most teeth removing. On the day he went in he was operated on by another vet - turned out our cat had immaculate teeth and had no problems whatsoever. Still charged us £150 for the priveledge. Truth is Hills do ALL the veterinary diet training (which vets dont have to learn, but vet nurses do). They also PAY vet practices to sell customers £60 a sack food. Think about this too - Hills make a so called "premium" normal food range popular with regular vet goers as the vet tells them it's the best (falsely). The animals fed that range go on to need prescription diets. Need I say more *lol*. Considering vets dont have to learn any nutritional stuff at vet school, I'll not trust a head vet who profits from Hills to tell me what my pets need. Give me blood test results and I'll believe them, and then look for the healthy homecooked option rather than giving them food likely to make them more ill. Ooo oo - edited to add: Our dog Dharma developped colitis and we found out that she is severely rice intolerant. What did the vet recommend? Hills ID which is a prescription diet for dogs with colitis/bowel problems. What is one of the ingredients? Have a guess.
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apple
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Post by apple on Nov 12, 2005 17:42:40 GMT
So, we shouldn´t give dogs biscuits to snails? It´s salt content is enough to be harmfull?
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Leah
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Post by Leah on Nov 12, 2005 18:14:10 GMT
If you didn't find that out until after the op, at least you could sue....nice thought. Glad he didn't have to go through that tho.
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apple
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Post by apple on Nov 13, 2005 16:55:11 GMT
I understood the explanation for the dogs, but not the relation with the snail question that made me open this thread... ;D Anyway, maybe what´s bad for a dog it isn´t at all for a snail, don´t? Or, when are used some products that can damage dogs health on dogs biscuits , the risk is the same for snails? I didn´t found any risky product on my dogs biscuits but I may be wrong too... Anyway my dogs seem healthy. I won´t advance on it, without being sure that these dogs biscuits are harmless for snails.
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Post by alexc1981 on Nov 14, 2005 12:52:47 GMT
[I do not trust vets anymore, Val Youre quite right. Our dog caught mange from the foxes in our garden. We visited 7 different vets and had all sorts of tests and a biopsy before it was correctly diognised. We speant quite a bit on different medications the vets prescribed. In the end it was cured by a simple mange bath. My mum thought it as probably mange all along, but we made the mistake of listening to the vets.
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KathyM
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Post by KathyM on Nov 14, 2005 13:03:15 GMT
I understood the explanation for the dogs, but not the relation with the snail question that made me open this thread... ;D Anyway, maybe what´s bad for a dog it isn´t at all for a snail, don´t? Or, when are used some products that can damage dogs health on dogs biscuits , the risk is the same for snails? I think what I was trying to say was that putting the salt content aside, there are ingredients in most dog foods that aren't even safe for dogs and with the lack of research into what is safe and not safe for companion animals (inluding snails) I won't risk it unless the food was 100% naturally preserved and the salt levels were safe.
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apple
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Post by apple on Nov 16, 2005 15:11:08 GMT
So even without being sure, you won´t risk on it... The same here.
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Nov 16, 2005 17:50:18 GMT
I didn´t found any risky product on my dogs biscuits but I may be wrong too.... You listed the ingredients of your dog food, and this was the list of additives: I dont know anything about the other ingredients, but BHA causes cancer (in cats and dogs and other mammals - dont know about snails). Ps. My fussy old trout of a dog has now changed from Autarky to Pero Gold, as it's perfect for fussy eaters, and still no additives. She wolfs it down (you can wet it and it makes a gravy so she's much keener), but sadly it's made her quite windy, let's hope she settles in to it - or I find somewhere that sells gas masks *lol*
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apple
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Post by apple on Nov 17, 2005 17:24:17 GMT
I didn´t found any risky product on my dogs biscuits but I may be wrong too.... You listed the ingredients of your dog food, and this was the list of additives: I dont know anything about the other ingredients, but BHA causes cancer (in cats and dogs and other mammals - dont know about snails). Ps. My fussy old trout of a dog has now changed from Autarky to Pero Gold, as it's perfect for fussy eaters, and still no additives. She wolfs it down (you can wet it and it makes a gravy so she's much keener), but sadly it's made her quite windy, let's hope she settles in to it - or I find somewhere that sells gas masks *lol* If dogs food don´t have antioxidants, their food will be putrified in a matter of hours, at least here. The solution maybe it´s using natural antioxidants, or just to cook it´s food everyday and put it on the refrigerator. Or maybe buy some dogs biscuits that don´t have additives but have some natural substances that avoids oxidation in an efficient way... I´ll be interested on the last solution. As I told earlier that I might be wrong, I´m just trying to know what´s harmless or harmfull... Even we all already know, that a lot of things that we eat and drink have a lot of preservatives like anti-oxidants, including some that can cause a lot of cancers on us. They don´t cause that on a so big rate, because they are present in a lot of types of food in tiny quantities.
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LisaLQ
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Post by LisaLQ on Nov 17, 2005 20:26:39 GMT
There are brands who dont use BHA or similar, and their food doesn't go off quickly because they use something else. Autarky use rosemary, as do Jollye's own brand, and I think this Pero too. There are foods without these nasty chemicals out there, you just have a look a bit harder (well, ok, sometimes a lot harder!). But I think it's worth it to reduce the risks of cancer, a bit like spaying/neutering! A good quality food will mean the dog stays at optimum health. I'm not sure, but I'd expect Burns Pet Nutrition dont use BHA and things like that (BHT and ethoxyquin are other nasty chemicals I *think*) as their food is organic. Edited to add - You're right, there are loads of additives in our food, and yes, I do eat those foods too - difference being we have the choice of what we eat, our dogs rely on us to make that choice, so we should do our best to provide the healthiest option
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Val
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Post by Val on Nov 17, 2005 22:15:56 GMT
Yes, Burns pet foods are all totally natural.
Val
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KathyM
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Post by KathyM on Nov 18, 2005 14:06:36 GMT
I wouldn't say Burns is "natural" (what is a natural diet to a dog?) but it is naturally preserved. Apple - dog food can be preserved easily without the use of petrochemical byproducts. Many foods are preserved with Vitamin E and Rosemary. Not that I would for one minute recommend you taking your dog off a prescription diet without good sound veterinary advice (eg from a holistic or homeopathic vet).
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apple
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Post by apple on Nov 18, 2005 15:34:50 GMT
You are all very nice. Thank you very much. Here, I´m not only concerned with dogs health but also with my own health... I´m just trying to eat biological most times, but I thought that my dogs were eating nice food too... At least I trusted on my vet, but I have to talk with her, to change somethings...
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