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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 18:07:42 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 14, 2005 18:07:42 GMT
I found some very small white worms in my tiger tank, they were crawling up the sides of the glass and there seemed to be little eggs glued to the site of the tank. They are definitely worms, less than 1 cm long, transclucent. I'd been keeping them in coir that was packed in dry bricks so I was fairly sure they were not already in the substrate.
Anyway, to be sure, I have been collecting faeces in a tub. No worms to be seen until today. It has been 5 days and there are now live worms in the faeces and eggs appearing stuck to the side.
So, my Brixton tigers have worms, I'm 99.9% certain. I'd recommend that anyone with wild snails, remove faeces at least every 3 days, and I'd do it with gloves on (in case they are hookworms). I'd left the tanks dirtier than usual when I spotted it the first time, after reading that Nisbet paper. But that isn't really an option.
I'm gonna try and send some of these worms to someone who can identify them, I just need to know they aren't hookworms to put my mind at rest. If anyone knows who I can send them to that'd be a great help, we never found out from Morgan's friend.
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 18:47:59 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 14, 2005 18:47:59 GMT
I'd appreciate if someone else would do this also to verify my find. Collect faeces over a 2 or 3 day period from each snail. Try and get both the thick, dry-ish stuff, and the stringy, gloopy stuff and put it all in a tub that has a lid that will snap shut. Then wait and tell me what you find. You'll probably have to shine a bright light in to see probably.
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 18:53:29 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 14, 2005 18:53:29 GMT
I know it's a horrible task but I'm hoping that someone with Brixton tigers also wants to know for certain
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 18:54:47 GMT
Post by sezzy5889 on Nov 14, 2005 18:54:47 GMT
I have brixton tigers, but i think they are fine
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 18:56:41 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 14, 2005 18:56:41 GMT
How can you be sure? I've had mine since Anjie's first visit and i've never spotted them before, and I was regularly inspecting the faeces for just that. I just never incubated it, instead I threw it all away every day.
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 20:06:30 GMT
Post by sezzy5889 on Nov 14, 2005 20:06:30 GMT
oh ok, i've had mine since July i think
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 21:01:54 GMT
Post by fredrik on Nov 14, 2005 21:01:54 GMT
I think you all should listen to Paul. Collecting faeces are not pleasent, but it may help you spot a threat in time... And if someone could take a really good macro shot on the worms, I might be able to find someone who could help us identify them.
/Fredrik
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 21:03:06 GMT
Post by sezzy5889 on Nov 14, 2005 21:03:06 GMT
i wish i could take a macro shot of these bloody mites!
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Worms
Nov 14, 2005 21:34:38 GMT
Post by section8angel on Nov 14, 2005 21:34:38 GMT
Should I do this with Freddie? As he's a brixton margie. It might be hard as my fulica are in with him, but I can try if you want. I'm not exactly the best at clean up (there are others who do it more, but there are also others that do it less too lol) but I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary yet.
I've just been growing tomatoes in the moss rofl. (Arno knows what I'm on about haha)
Now I'm all paranoid again LOL I really don't need horrid things like this hanging around!!
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 0:20:29 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 15, 2005 0:20:29 GMT
I would suggest doing it with any wild African snails. Don't worry about mixing the faeces up if they live in the same tank as others. I have 6 snails in my tank, anyone or all of them could be the culprit. I would imagine that they would spread very quickly in an enclosed environment.
I just collected it all over a period of a few days.
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gabi
Achatina tincta
Posts: 616
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 6:01:20 GMT
Post by gabi on Nov 15, 2005 6:01:20 GMT
I´ve only had visible worms one time in a tank, but not in one with wc-snails. The other tank never came in touch with an wc-snail. It was the baby-fulica tank. I changed the substrate (I am using cocohumus in all my tanks and the green-moos from the woods) and they never came again. At least, I haven`t seen them since that again and weeks are gone now. This worms looked similar to that ones you can have in an normal aquarium, but cannot remember the name yet.
Paul, are you keeping all your tanks as wet as the baby-tank you talked from? Then it could be a possibility that this are that ones which appear in aquariums too. As much as I think to remember they can survive a very long time in dried form too and even stand boiling. But not sure, it is a long time ago, I read on this and it could easily be that I mix it up with something else.
The only one animals (besides the snails) in my tanks are fruit-flies from time to time and in the huge margie-tiger tank lives a little "hundred-feet-animal" (the little european ones, not the african ones). Seems to have come with one of the pot-plants I have in the tank. I let him in there as he is already over an month in and seems to be fine. And I have heard that people in Germany let live their GALS with the arican form too without problems.
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 7:34:26 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 15, 2005 7:34:26 GMT
The tank isn't that wet, especially because when using coir it tends to sink to the bottom and leaves the top dry. I wondered myself about the possibility of them coming from elsewhere but if that was the case, my other tanks would be the same or at least one should because I keep them all in similar conditions. I know what you mean though, get a drop of water and life somehow begins, and I suppose it is a possibility. But the much more likely answer is worms, I'm convinced. Looked again today and they are hatching at a rate of knots at about 1mm long. There must be a good few hundred now, all from a few stool samples. I hope they do turn out to be what you are suggesting but I doubt it
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 7:42:27 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 15, 2005 7:42:27 GMT
Oh btw, just so you know, about the hundred-feet animals. The english for them is centipede: and millipede:
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 7:44:01 GMT
Post by section8angel on Nov 15, 2005 7:44:01 GMT
Ewww.. lol
Right I'll try and remember to start doing that. Does the lid need air holes at all? It can be covered with mesh to stop them getting out.
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 7:48:42 GMT
Post by ericR on Nov 15, 2005 7:48:42 GMT
i once did an experiment with my snails to see where the mites were coming from, so i picked up quite a bit of poo aand put it in a tupperware and within a day there was at least 100 mites running around inside. My brixintons poo was also within there and i never seen any worms
eric
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 8:06:42 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 15, 2005 8:06:42 GMT
Definitely no air-holes, you want a container that is gonna stop them getting out. I did take the lid of mine a few times to check by shining a strong light in, but once I saw them the lid hasn't come off, and they appear on the sides of the container. Pick a clear one for that reason.
Eric, it has took 4-5 days for these things to hatch, and multiply.
It is very strange, I need a microscope to determine what the little egg things are. When I first looked, there was nothing at all. Then I noticed a few worms wiggling about. Then shortly after, little white, stationary dots appear on the side of the container, that seem to hatch into tiny worms, they move like a desert-snake on sand. From this, I assume the worms are laying eggs already, I just don't know, it's very odd.
They start at about 1 mm long but I have observed 10mm ones that I presume had grown or been expelled as adult from the snails.
If you have some brixton tigers particularly or wild snails in general I'd suggest doing this. What's the harm? At least you'll know for certain and that will come in handy if we manage to find out what they are. It also provides us with a way to test for worms. That's part of the reason I want some verification on this. If no-one tests positive, it could be one snail of mine that has it, and I can go about finding out which one. That is a big task so I need some reasoning to start it.
One thing I haven't done but I should do is sort out a control group. I'll take some faeces today from a captive-bred snail that has been nowhere near the wild ones and incubate it. That shouldn't be too hard seeing as the retraction problem I was having forced me to be ultra careful about keeping them and all the paraphernalia separate.
If they have the same things, perhaps they are harmless nematodes of some description that snails need. I doubt it, because if you remember someone from cybersnail looked at some wild-tiger faeces under a microscope and discovered it was riddled with them.
The thing is, I expected this, as I've said before 86% of wild margies in one study had the rat-lung worm and most wild animals are riddled with worms. That's part of what you take on with wild-caught animals. I just want to find out what they are so I can find the best way of coping with them, risk-wise and hopefully eradicating them.
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 8:46:09 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 15, 2005 8:46:09 GMT
I've looked again after what you said about them possibly water life of some description, I must admit some of them move like water-life, and they tend to be round the sides where water is condensing. If they are these, how have I got them? The tanks are fairly new, but I've scrubbed them with boiling water and soapy water a number of times and rinsed and rinsed and rinsed ad nauseum. And once since I discovered these worms. And they have reappeared since then. But it would explain why they seem to breed in the container and that bit has been puzzling me. These things are multiplying. But at the moment they are absolutely tiny, I have seen bigger ones so perhaps one of these is laying eggs. Worms can lay 1000s of eggs every day. It's driving me nuts, I just need some answers. I think I have managed to experience just about every problem you can get with snails in the year I have been keeping them ...mites, flies, springtails, worms, some sort of viral illness, bad shell growth, rasping at their own shell even with loads of calcium.... On the other hand, I've had quite a few successes, but it's starting to get me down.
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 8:49:23 GMT
Post by sezzy5889 on Nov 15, 2005 8:49:23 GMT
i think you may have to clean them out everyday for a week or something so that everytime any eggs hatch they are scrubbed away immediately before they mature and lay more
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 9:05:18 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 15, 2005 9:05:18 GMT
If they are some sort of aquatic life I think you may be right.
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gabi
Achatina tincta
Posts: 616
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 9:27:44 GMT
Post by gabi on Nov 15, 2005 9:27:44 GMT
Enchyträen Planarien
I found this 2 as possible but now I am going to feed Google with this words and maybe I find pic´s there.
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gabi
Achatina tincta
Posts: 616
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 10:13:11 GMT
Post by gabi on Nov 15, 2005 10:13:11 GMT
This could be that ones as our tanks have perfectly conditons for their breeding: This are sites about the Whiteworms: members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Whitewrm.htmvideos of this ones: www.ceh.ac.uk/sections/epfs/Enchytraeus_albidus_videos.htmlFlatworms usually need water to live in but they are too happy with dampy areas: A German site of Planarien (flatworms in English): www.aquarienfische.info/seiten/planarie.htm Dendrocoelum lacteum (a planaria a milkwhite one): You have to copy and paste the whole link: www.peter-koelbl.de/index.htm?http://www.peter-koelbl.de/eching_tiere.htmHope to help a bit, but haven´t read all the stuff yet to find out more. I only know that flatworms need an snail or other aquatic-animal to breed, maybe they too are going in GALS when they are sitting in water in the wild? Questions over questions. At least they are not really harmful for us and the snailies, but they don´t look nice at all in our tanks.... Seems that I had big luck to got rid of them after only one time appearing here in one of my tanks. Me personally thinks that it could be whiteworms what are in your tank, Paul. They are loving to eat the poo of the snails and the rests of the food we feed the snails.
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Arno
Archachatina puylaerti
Posts: 1,493
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Worms
Nov 15, 2005 16:16:05 GMT
Post by Arno on Nov 15, 2005 16:16:05 GMT
Those whiteworms look like the kind of things i once had in my Tiger/Margie tank(That was before the Brixtons).At the time I thought they were nematodes,but these could easily have been them.
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Annelie
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 255
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Worms
Nov 16, 2005 0:15:29 GMT
Post by Annelie on Nov 16, 2005 0:15:29 GMT
It sounds like the worms my snails had before. I didn't have any wild caught snails then though... I changed the soil and they never came back. But that's it, I'm getting gloves! It's just soooo discusting!
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Worms
Nov 16, 2005 8:55:24 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 16, 2005 8:55:24 GMT
Ok, I have an update. I checked the faeces of my captive bred snails. They have these things also. Always in wet parts so I am beginning to think they are not parasites. I found some wriggling in a few drops of water, so I dried the water up with a lamp and the worms died instantly, even when I re-wet them, so dryness is a huge factor. However, I noticed something pivotal. I have seen these things before many times but I've never inspected closely. Have you ever cleaned out your snails, and seen the faeces and old food, shimmering slightly, glistening is a better word to describe it? I have on many occasions and it always baffled me; because it seemed to glisten in artifical light and outside I didn't notice it I assumed it had something to do with bad light. Well, that glistening is these worm things moving around and wiggling. I am still gonna get them ID'd, I've spoken to Morgan who has kindly agreed to pass them on for inspection. I'm not sure how they get into your tanks, personally I think they are some sort of Nematode. I've looked into planaria and flatworms and they look too stubby and apparently they move slowly. Whereas free-living nematodes sound like mine. The following link seems to describe what I have: aquaticpredators.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20403&pid=231193&st=0entry231193Some nematodes can live inside an animals and be beneficial. Either that or they are somehow in my tank and cleaning out doesn't get rid of them. If they can be identified as these, I can live with that. It's probably impossible to get shut of them, if my rigorous cleaning hasn't already, but at least I'll know they are not dangerous.
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Worms
Nov 16, 2005 9:01:26 GMT
Post by Paul on Nov 16, 2005 9:01:26 GMT
Also this seems to sum up what they could be:
Nematodes: tiny, thin, HAIRLESS worms which swim by making S shapes back and forth. Not to be confused with mosquito or midge larva (below) which have hairs. Often pink or red colored. 1-5mm long. Danger: Harmless to plants, inverts, fry and fish. Unknown worm: tiny, thin, hairless and whitish or yellow. Crawls on side of glass, seems to be searching for food. Might be a type of Nematode.
Danger: Harmless. Sometimes present when theres an excess of food in the aquarium.
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