W/C snails and pests....

[Sally]

I have had a good read through the various posts regarding worms and mites etc which i have found very interesting.

I am in the process of getting some wild caught margies and flammea from Eric in the next month or so and after reading the posts i would not mix the w/c with my captive bred GALS.

What i wanted to know really was if the new snails had worms how would i get rid of them if you can at all? These worms seem to be much more of a pain to eliminate that the mites.

I keep all my snails on capillary matting and wild sphagnum moss (which i collect locally) and plan to keep the new ones on this too?

Any thoughts or experiences of w/c snails and mites/worms would be greatly appreiated. ;D

Thanks
Sally

[LisaLQ]

I keep wc with my cb as long as they've been through a quarantine period with bare tanks and daily clean outs (and baths). My Brixtons shall be moving in with my margies soon, as they've shown no signs of worms or mites (obviously Anjie and Ruth have done a fab job with them). My cb snails have never caught anything off the wc ones, but of course it's a risk best avoided, hence the quarantine. But I wouldn't rule keeping them together out, just make sure that the chances are lessened

[Sally]

Thats good to hear!!!

What would be a good quarentine period?
I was thinking 2 - 3 months?

Obviously i know it all depends on how they are in themselves, wether they are eating o.k etc.

thanks again

Sally

[Val]

I would think that 2-3 months would be plenty long enough to see if they have any parasites.

Val

[anjieburdett]

Paul found an article once that said that pumpkin seed is extremely good for ridding creatures of internal worms. In the article a man fed pumpin seeds to his fish and their internal worms were expelled within days So i feed mine on pumpkin seeds regularly - its worth a try and it doesn't hurt them...mine love the seeds ;D

Anjie,x.

[Paul]

A while back a member from France called Franck replied to one of my threads concerned parasitic worms. He wrote the following:

"come perhaps a later Paul, but nematodes are not specialy in faeces and you can have this parasite into the body of animal and you can't see them. It arrives that this type of parasite come out of the body and you can find them in substrate then. I have the problem with a first generation of breeding of fulica from Martinique and I will treate them to kill the parasites. To do it there is a solution that a friend has used with success : you place the snails in a tank, the best solution is to individualize the snails, and you give them dry food where you place a vermifuge (Stromiten was the product used with success). For the dry food you can used a composition of corn floor with powder of egg shell and powder of dry food for turtles or rabbits commercial food under the form of stopper ("bouchon" in french and I am not sure for the translate). I think that it is a serious solution to use for new specimens because you can have serious risk with wild caught because some parasites can be vector of diseases. And it is not necessary to exaggerate the problem of parasites but I think that it is really a good prevention."

I've not been able to find Stromiten, so I emailed him to find more information, and perhaps a ingredients list so I could find an equivalent here. But unfortunately I've never heard back from him.

I had looked into vermifuges before but I was concerned that snails and worms are similar enough to kill them both. I assumed from his post this isn't the case but I wondered which types of vermifuges are safe so I could attempt to find an equivalent I can buy.

Incidentally, there are non-parasitic nematodes, that you may occasionally see, particularly if you leave food in a tank for longer than 24 hours as they multiply rapidly. I don't think these are harmful, but it's worth trying to establish which types you have. The best way is to leave some food in the tank. After a few days you may see it shimmering slightly. If it does, they are nematodes that are eating and multiplying in the food. I think these are more prevalent than is realised. Finding a few larger ones (1cm) prompted me to buy a jewellers magnifying glass, and then I could spot them at 20x.

I don't know a way to get rid of these, particularly as they get trapped on the snails' bodies, in the mucus and boy have I tried. But they can be massively reduced by not allowing them to breed in the food by removing it fairly quickly, regular cleaning of both snails and tanks and by allowing drier spells in the tanks. I was worried they were harmful because I had a few snails die, but I currently think that is a coincidence.

[nacre]

You can not get rid of the Rat lung worm. Angiostrongylus cantonensis, which is often found in WC snails.
I have been in contact with a Swedish parasitologist about the disease and I posted our correspondence on the board, but I can't find it.
Paul, any idea where it is or have you saved our Yahoo messenger correspondence about this issue?

/Fredrik

[Paul]

I can't find it, but I did get contacted by a parasitologist who told me that rat-lung worms infectious stage would only last a matter of months. I couldn't get a concrete timescale from them, but after that period whilst the snails would still have them, they would not be infectious to mammals.

[nacre]

That was interesting.
Paul, could you ask the parasitoligst if he/she could forward some of the references he/she has used?
I would really like to investigate this further.

/Fredrik

[snegledame]

RE: Stromiten

Please see the PDF document at this site [www.imb.ie/view_spc.asp?pa_number=10983%2F012%2F001] for pharmaceutical information on the complication and usage of Stromiten (specifically used for de-worming dogs).

Some highlights from the information sheet:

"
1. Name of the Veterinary medicinal product

Stromiten Dogs

2. Qualitative and quantitative composition

Each tablet contains:

Active Substance
Levamisole hydrocloride 19 mg
Niclosamide 720 mg

3. Pharmaceutical form

Tablets

4. Pharmacological properties

-Niclosamide: non toxic taenicide when used at therapeutic doses. The taenicide effect leads to lysis of parasitic segments.

-Levamisole: Tetramisole isomer, active on larval forms (non-encysted L4 and L5), and adults of many digestive and pulmonary nematodes.

5. Clinical particulars

5.1 Target species: Dogs.

[...]

5.10 Special warnings for each target species: The product is not effective against Echinococcus spp or Trichuris vulpis.

[...]

7. Name or corporate name and address or registered place of business of the authorization holder [edited to add: in Ireland]

Vetoquinol Ireland Limited
Wilton Place
Dublin 2

8. Addtional information

8.1 Marketing authorisation number: VPA 10983/12/1

8.2.1 Date of approval of SPC: 1st October 2004"


-Snegledame

[snegledame]

Further to the topic of Stromiten:

At a "therapeutic dose" of 720 mg. Niclosamide, I can't see that this would be healthful for snails after reading the information sheet at parasitology.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/login/n/h/2097-0001_c.pdf.

Under the rubric of "Drugs used against cestode infections of domestic animals," it there states that Niclosamide monohydrate (a salicyclanilide) at a dosage of 100 mg. per 150 kg. body weight "has been used world-wide against tapeworm infections of animals and humans, and as a molluscicide (WHO has recomended the drug for control of fresh water snails infected with Schistosoma spp. cf. 'Control of trematodes')... ."

There is more on Stromiten (and similar preparations) in particular; as I am not versed in pharmacology, I'll leave it to others to analyse.

-Snegledame

[Paul]

It doesn't sound too promising does it. I thought it sounded too good to be true. The problem lies in the fact that anthelmintics take advantage of the difference in biological make-up of the worms and the host. Snails and worms are not that dissimilar.

For completeness, here is what that French visitor said:


"To do it there is a solution that a friend has used with success : you place the snails in a tank, the best solution is to individualize the snails, and you give them dry food where you place a vermifuge (Stromiten was the product used with success). For the dry food you can used a composition of corn floor with powder of egg shell and powder of dry food for turtles or rabbits (commercial food under the form of stopper ("bouchon" in french and I am not sure for the translate)."