LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
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Post by LisaLQ on Nov 18, 2006 15:35:47 GMT
I know it's a controversial topic, but something that many of us might have to deal with at some point or another.
I've had a couple of snails with retracting problems in the past, various conditions and lots of care have done nothing for them - our most well known being Gary and Sally the two-tones, who sadly died naturally a few months back.
But I do have one fulica (it's Flucky sadly) who is constantly retracted, will come out now and again when disturbed, but if left to her own devices, she stays retracted way back in her shell (almost out of sight).
As she's not improving, and I dont know whether this is something she'll recover from (my others didn't as I said, despite tonnes of extra care), I'm starting to wonder whether it's worth keeping her alive.
Now I know I may get a severe tongue lashing for this as it's not something we like to do - but I just wondered - is there any way of euthanising humanely? I was thinking of cooling her down in the fridge, then freezing her. I dont think I could bring myself to squish a snail, despite that being the obvious quickest option.
I hate myself for even typing this - but I thought it might be useful info for those who have snails who are suffering.
I'm not planning on rushing off to do this now - I have one last plan up my sleeve - to put them back on moss this week, as the others aren't laying any more either so I'm thinking that there might be an environmental thing going on. Some of my fulicas are so bloomin' fussy though - whereas some are tough as old boots (namely Sam, Cooper, Coco and Fidget - although these are my three reliable layers, they haven't laid recently either).
What do you lot think?
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Post by deadmansfinger on Nov 18, 2006 15:44:36 GMT
I am sure freezing is not the way to go. I read before that it quite a painful way for any animal to die (something to do with vessels rupturing etc) I understand for us cooling it and freezing it might be easier but this is a long drawnout process for the animal compared to squashing etc which is fairly instant for the snail but unpleasant for us. I will see if I can find the article as typically I cant locate it now but it did state it was not humane to freeze a live animal.
I dont think you should be concerned at posting this as it comes up from time to time and is a topic that needs to be covered, perhaps even made a sticky somewhere as alot of us will come across it at some point when keeping snails.
Brian.
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goose
Achatina immaculata
Posts: 311
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Post by goose on Nov 18, 2006 17:32:52 GMT
Hmm - I keep goldfish and have had a couple with severe swimbladder problems that have needed euthanasing. A lot of the goldfish forums talk about 'home made euthanasia' - (including slitting their gills which I was in no way going to consider) and freezing. In the end I asked our vet - she said she wouldn't recommend it for the reasons Brian states above - I took them in and had an overdose of anaesthetic bubbled into the water. Cost me but as treasured pets I know they went in the best possible way. I think you are right though - it is a topic that needs discussing - I don't think anyone likes seeing any pet suffer unnecessarily. Trouble is like a lot of 'new pets' snails haven't been very common - vets have only recently been able to treat goldfish and I guess many won't have the information about snails to know how to euthanase humanely.
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Post by copigeon on Nov 18, 2006 19:24:55 GMT
This is something Ive been looking into for a while, and have (in part maybe) a possible solution.
Unless you intend to pay a small fortune to your vet for an overdose of anesthetic (which isnt a luxury for alot of people especially when breeding a large quantity of animals) there must be an effective way of dispatching injured/ill or deformed livestock. For the good of the hobby, for the good of the animal in most cases.
I got chatting to someone who breeds large quantities of mice, and she put to me that a similar problem is had by the mouse enthusiast. How to dispatch a sick/disabled mouse without causing undue suffering. There are various methods (physical) used, but none particularly pleasant. She mentioned a method they have settled on with a carbon dioxide chamber. It occured to me that this might be the way to go with snails?
Carbon dioxide in a heavy concentrate causes distress, but a slow increase in carbon dioxide slows down the rate of breathing, induces tiredness and renders eventual loss of consciousness. By slowly decreasing oxygen levels a mammel can be reduced to sleep... following a high and quick concentration of CO2 which acts as the killer. The animal is already unconscious, the heart stops.
Snails need oxygen like any other animal. Im not sure how a snail would be effected by a lack of oxygen in this way. Whether it too like the mouse would be made unconscious prior to death. But it is perhaps an answer?
CO2 is easily manufactored in the home, and controllable.
The only real alternatives for snails are boiling, freezing, or crushing. And crushing is a really bad option for a big snail. I would say CO2 is a good answer?
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
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Post by LisaLQ on Nov 22, 2006 14:27:17 GMT
Thanks for all the advice and ideas, sadly I've just found Flucky dead in her tank. At least now I dont have to worry about helping her go
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Nov 22, 2006 19:54:55 GMT
Sorry to hear that lisa, I feel it is always better if they go naturally though.
Val
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
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Post by LisaLQ on Nov 23, 2006 0:38:12 GMT
Thanks Val.
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igby
Achatina achatina
Hitchin' a ride...
Posts: 72
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Post by igby on Dec 2, 2006 12:36:38 GMT
I always wondered about this. For the fish keepers out there, apparently clove oil (not too pricey) in the wate is a great way to euthanise fish. If you google it you'll find the info.
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autumn
Achatina fulica
Posts: 5
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Post by autumn on Feb 7, 2007 0:46:29 GMT
I think it's probably best for nature to decide. Maybe you should put the snail somewhere warm and quite with food and drink , not disturb it for a few days and and see how things go. If the snail is retracted in it's shell it is hard to say if it is in pain or not or ill. If the temperature fluctates alot in a room that can make them go like this. Don't freeze the poor thing though that's just mean.
I think the snail could be depressed for some reason. My fish was depressed until I bought him a friend then he was like a new fish.
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LisaLQ
Archachatina papyracea
Old friend (emphasis on the "old")
Posts: 2,995
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Post by LisaLQ on Feb 8, 2007 0:29:33 GMT
Thanks for all the advice and ideas, sadly I've just found Flucky dead in her tank. At least now I dont have to worry about helping her go Thanks Autumn, I'll remember that for in the future - I think you're right about leaving it to nature, it's just so hard sometimes. But anyway, just wanted to point out that the snail concerned isn't depressed any more, she died back in November
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Post by this is autumn on Feb 9, 2007 17:43:24 GMT
[/quote] But anyway, just wanted to point out that the snail concerned isn't depressed any more, she died back in November [/quote] Jeez trust me to find an old post. I'll get my coat.
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