The Terracotta Pot Idea.

[copigeon]

Im not sure, who it was who mentioned using light bulbs under terracotta pots? As heaters.
But Ive been trialing a few for the past week, trying to come up with a working model. The reasons being.

I currently use heatmats, which are expensive to purchase, high wattage, and inefficient due to the way they must be mounted (underfloor: insulated by substrate, side mounted: heat lost to outside as well as inside).
But I have to rearrange the way my vivs are set up, so the 46 inch matts I have been using will become obsilete. So its a matter of either an individual mat for each tank, which Im loathed to do. Or something new.

Pauls suggestion with the mats in bottles is fine and dandy but the smaller mats still cost about £15 each and still use 40w per mat, which is insane when you consider its 40w per 46 inch mat.

Now Ive started by trialing heat output per wattage of bulb, trying with the touch test on 2 terracotta pots, 8 inch and 6 inch.

12w I cant find in the mini bulb size with a standard bayonette fitting, so I cant test it in a 6 inch pot, but in the 8 inch Ive pretty much ruled it out as being unable to output enough heat to maintain a good temp in a damp tank. Assuming the humdity and damp subrate will draw away some of the heat from the pot.

25w atm seems the best option, Im currently testing it in a 6inch pot, but the 8 inch is perfect, bar the last inch of the upturned pot. That, gets uncomfortably hot. Obviously due to the nature of heat. Im wondering if I can silicone a plant pot tray into the bottom upside down, leaving an inch of gap, so the heat spreads better, rather than just collecting at the very top of the upturned pot.

40w is far too hot, discomfortingly so in 8 and 6 inch.

Now, the reason Im mentioning it. Is because Im trying to accertain whether or not, having the top of the heater, as reasonably hot, is actually going to be a worry.
The pot is sloped sides anyway, the terracotta should absorb some of the humidity despite the heat which will help with maintaining a resonable temp.

But what Im curious of, is whether or not, the snails would actually subject themselves to uncomfortable temperatures? Ie crawl up the pot to the hottest part, and stay there, if theyre obviously in discomfort?
Or will they have the common sense, to fall off, or move away, or avoid it all together?
Im going to test it tomorrow with some reasonably sized fulcia. But Im just wondering if anyones had experience of snails causing themselves injury on hot surfaces, not through burying to get away from it, but by crawling across it?

[Paul]

I use 12w heat mats. One per 3 foot tank and the tank gets really warm, depending on ventilation.

One suggestion would be to use compact flourescents, they are low wattage but get quite hot, so I imagine a 8w bulb in a plantpot would warm it enough.

The problem ultimately is ventilation, you can have a radiator on full blast all you want, but if the door is open and the rooms outside are cold, it'll just get sucked out, especially because ventilation is nearly always on the lid. People with plastic tanks may opt to put their ventilation on the side instead for this reason.

I think that is why my mats work so well, I've opted for less ventilation but regular airings, so the heat gets trapped inside. I think putting the heat at one end, and putting ventilation at the other will help a little. I've also learned to keep the tank slightly dryer than before because the humidity rises with less ventilation and easily compensates. They seem happy enough and I can keep the tank at about 25°C+ without the central heating on.

As for snails avoiding things too hot, I would think it very likely they can.

[Paul]

Just to add, it is known that snails can survive for 3-4 days with 3 times their own volume of air. In a 3 foot tank that is never gonna be an issue. You just have to make sure it doesn't get too damp inside as I have read this can cause infections. That's why I regularly air it out and I tend leave the lid off for an hour or so each day.

[copigeon]

Hmm, 8w just doesnt seem man enough, the 12w nightlight pearl standard filiment bulbs just didnt output enough to maintain more than a slightly warm surface to a pot, and thats before its stool in cool damp substrate, the size of the pot could be limiting that though.
Im still betting on the 25, will keep hold of my 12s just incase.

The problems with striplights are, containing them so the bulb isnt directly exposed to the animal or its environment, and the fact like an energy saving bulb, thier heat output vs light is poor? Like cold cathodes?

My dislike of the heatmats is more than just the output vs wattage, because of thier situation on the outside of the tank there has to be an ammount of wasted heat? Theyre not the most efficent things even based on that alone? And as the sole heatsoure in an unheated environment they do poorly.

If you could centrally heat a tank, from inside, you would get the most from the heating device.

But another reason is cost. I have approximately 15 tanks to heat (actually b&q economny 57cm propogators, which are ideal) in an unheated room. so they have to be cheap, and incredably efficent at heating the airspace within the tank itself.

I agree alot of heatloss is due to overventilation and better placement of grills will aid a side heating mat, but if this worked, it would be an ideal heating solution? cheap, easily maintained, efficent?
And you could vary output on a... dimmer like resistor? set up, or just varying wattage. For use with, different body mass of snails? An adult tiger I'd imagine will tollerate a hotter pot than a snail 1inch in length.

Im hoping what you say is true and that the snails wouldnt subject themselves to heat based injury. Will see in a few days. If I can get this working, and anyone is interested, I'll be happy to pass on plans.

[copigeon]

Hmm, if snails do better, in a well ventilated environment, maybe, Im going in the wrong direction with individual enclosures, and a... pen system? within a larger heated, plastic closh would be better...
Would just be nice to work out an ideal system. The cold weather is very unusual here this early on, is a bit dire.

[Paul]

I'm not saying they do better in a well-ventilated enclosure necessarily. It is impossible indoors where the air is so dry but you just don't want it getting really wet.

The compact energy-saving bulbs really do put a lot of heat out. I use them for a warm growing cupboard for starting off cacti etc. A 12w one of them is like a 100W incandenscent bulb, so they put miles more heat out than a tube or a 12W incandescent (if you can get them). I aim to get 2500 lumens in the cupboard, so two 12 watt compact energy-saving bulbs are ideal. In a space about the size of a tank but with worse air-leaks etc. it regularly hits 32°C to give you an idea of heat output.

[pixie]

I was just wondering about the possibilities of using a Jar filled with water, with a fish tank heater in - i'm not sure how powerful it would be but it should produce some heat, and you get ones with thermostatic control, so wouldn't over heat!

-also (if you haven't yet) try pigmy light bulbs- i had one in the lid of my fish tank, and it would get pretty warm, can't think of thier exact name but i think they are the ones used in oven hoods, they have a small screw fitting like candle bulbs

[section8angel]

Where would it go though? It would be too risky to put it inside the tank even if you sealed it. It could break if they knocked it over and when some fish tank heaters are out of water they not only fry themselves but other things too.
I have the heater in my small fish tank set on 25C and the water doesn't feel that warm (even though the therm says it is lol), so I don't know if it would do enough.
It's worth a try though if there was a sure safe way to do it.

Energy saving bulbs do get very hot, I have one in my main light and it's bloomin hot. It's not even a high wattage one either.

[copigeon]

I tried the 20w energy savers... but although the bulb got very hot to the touch, the terracotta pot only heated at the top inch of pot, the rest of the pot didnt heat?

Yet with an incandescent bulb the whole pot heats fairly evenly bar the very top disk of terracotta.

Hrmm,

Energy savers would be ideal, but again its enclosing them. I did look into the very expensive reptile bulbs which output uvb which is stage 2 But again, its enclosing the bulb in a way which allows for uv, but prevents direct contact, and wire cages would get too hot.

Cheers for the input btw, much appreciated. I think Im going to have to run a series of trials and see what works best, I'll look into the strip lighting after Ive trialed the 25w incandescent, then try and find a way around the top heating issue with an energy saver.

[copigeon]

Pixie, I did look at the pigmy lights, but the issue I have is the fact Im using a standard bayonette fitting light socket atm I'll try and find some different fittings because ideally a smaller pot and bulb would be less intrusive on the tanks capacity.

The water idea is valid, but it doesnt help with the cost issue, Im looking at cheap efficient heating due to the very large number of tanks I'll be establishing when the weather improves. You could use heated piping... like underfloor heating, but th esystem would require static tanks, fixed by pipes, a pump, and reliable heaters. Over complicated and inflexible.

[pixie]

Yes sorry, if you were to use a fish tank heater you would have to seal it and then fix it so it can't fall, a coke or juice bottle would also work instead of a jar- you just have to ensure that it dosen't melt the plastic if it touches the side

[section8angel]

Well putting it in a heater guard should in theory stop that. They're not that expensive. It's the heaters that are though lol.

Thinking about it you could probably make some small holes in the side/back of the tank and thread something through them and round the bottle/jar and back out to keep it still. If you did lots of holes then even the biggest snail shouldn't be able to move it lol.
You'd need to be smart with sealing it though as the water will evaporate, so you'd need it to be safe for the snails not to get in, but you can get in to top the water up.

I'm sure I've seen heating things for plants, but can't find them now. The ones I saw weren't that expensive but they might have been on a special price or something. I'll have a look around though

Oh, and it was Sarah who said about the light in a pot idea because she saw it used on a tv program.

[Paul]

The experiment is a valid one because a great method may emerge but it sounds to me that with as many tanks as you have, central heating is better if you have it, or why not get an electric bar heater? For 7+ tanks it'd be cheaper to buy than all the equivalent heat mats and probably comparable in electricity usage regardless of what you do.

One little thing is, I'd use screw bulbs if possible, bayonets rattle around and are more likely to get water on the connection. I'd also seal the bulb onto the socket with silicon sealent or something.

Incidentally, for a while I trapped one heat mat between 2 tanks instead of insulating the back. This worked a treat and it the most efficient use of the mats. I only stopped doing that because I wanted each tank end to end so I could see them better. But, if it is a matter of getting through winter it probably isn't that convenient. If you do have them all end to end and you have the space, you could trap the mats between each end of the tanks.

[copigeon]

That would have been ideal Paul and was the plan, I did fully insulate and equip my hothouse to overwinter them, but unfortunatly the weathers worse than expected, people are predicting its only going to get worse. And the tube heaters? I have fitted just arnt man enough to heat the space to an appropriate temp.
So I moved them indoors to overwinter, onto the landing which is the only space I have for so many tanks, but because its a landing its impossible to close off and heat. Hence the search for a better method.

I was going to back to back the tanks as you say, but I had to replace my glass tanks as they were better suited to my beetles, with propogaters with slanted sides, making that impossible.

I hadnt thought about the tightness of the bulb fitting, I intended to silicon the pot bulb and tray together once I'd accertained what worked. Water shouldnt be an issue however, I intend to protect the top vent, and the heat of the bulb should prevent the damp soaking into the terracotta preventing any humidity in the actual unit.

The 25w is outputting the perfect temp btw, with the hole in the top of the upturned flower pot (Drainage hole) onobstruted, the pot doesnt over heat. Just need to find a way of preventing snails from getting it, or drops of condensation.

[copigeon]

Ok, 25 watt was too much after prolongued use. 12w is just fine, but the current bulb and pot are far to big to make it useful in a smaller tank.
I'll try and get hold of some mini edison screw fittings, I believe they make them? And the pygmy bulbs which fit them.

I solved the "hot top" problem with the heat rising to the top of the pot, and also created a humidifier, by siliconing a terracotta plant pot dish? to the top, and filling it with water. Not only does this seal the drainage hole, but with the slow evapouration provides constant humidity. And seems to be working very well.

Will get hold of a smaller pot/bulb/fitting and trial it again sometime this week. But it seems so far to be fine.

[copigeon]

Pygmy bulbs are no good... not only are the small edison screw fittings very expensive compared to a standard, but they only last 1000hours.. approx 40 days? changing the bulb every 40 days appox would be irritating beyond belief. A standard bulb lasts 3x that, so standard it is.

[copigeon]

all done, works great in a test propogator, will run it in the fulcia juvenile tank tonight, with thermometer and see how it goes.

[copigeon]

[section8angel]

Can I have a top view and underneath view please? Lol

[copigeon]

cheeky mare

Ive siliconed it together now if it works ok, I'll take some better pictures before I put the second one together.

Its not cost me much, I had to make a custom stand for the lightbulb fitting inside, but I could have bought smaller fittings, they were just over my "cheap heater" budget.

Pot 80p
2 Trays, 60p and 40p
Bulb fitting £1.20 (can get for 63p from screwfix)
Bulb 67p for 2
Flex negligable?
Plug... unsure.
Silicone. Had some spare but its not too costly, wouldnt need much.

Made for well under a fiver.

[section8angel]

Lol I wasn't being cheeky, honest! I'd like to see the inside so a bottom view will do that, and I thought something was in the top bit as it looked different so wanted to know what it was

[copigeon]

Its sealed Plant pot tray on the bottom, and an upturned one on the top covering the drainage hole in the upturned flower pot. No water can get in, the inside bottom was painted, so no moisture either. In theory its a sealed unit. But needs some testing time.

The next one I'll photograph before I assemble so you have inside shots.

[section8angel]

Ahhh I see. Good stuff.

I might see what I can find lying around lol. I know I have the pots, trays, bulbs and sealant. Oh I have a few plugs too just not the wiring and holder lol

Rofl. I'm almost there really

[sezzy5889]

If you are siliconing it together what happens if the bulb goes

And thats agood idea putting water in the top, because it will keep the tank humid :-)

[copigeon]

Yeah the bulbs lifespan is a pain, but I couldnt work out an easier way of sealing it. So when it blows, I'll peal the silicone off and reseal should last 3 months a time? thats not too much fuss. Maybe I'll find a better solution by then, this just stops water getting in and the snails tipping it appart.

The waters great, humidity and it keeps the temp down at the top of the pot where the heat collects.... happy.