Ecosystem?

[sonicsnail]

Is it possible to establish a small ecosystem within a fairly large tank? I have always wondered if it is possible to do so. It will only include snails as the main animal in there. It's hard to explain, but a tank with just snails and a few other smaller animals to do the jobs of "cleaning up". Like the woodlice topic, was it mentioned that they eat snail faeces? I'm not sure, but are there other small animals that will eat any "pests" like small worm like things and mites? Also, there could be real plants in there.

The idea is that cleaning out would only have to be done about every two months? So, the owner would still have to feed and remove all old food but the main aim is for the tank to be made cleaner and for longer by other small animals. That way the owner can save on the amount of substrate used, for cleaning out every three weeks would no longer be necessary.

I hope that my idea is clear. Does anyone know if this can be possible. It would be interesting to see if a mini ecosystem can be developed.

Thanks,

Sonic

[sezzy5889]

Beth has done this with incredible success, her snails are acting so much more naturally, there shells have changed colour they 'rest' often for a couple of weeks and then upon waking up eat, put on weight and lay eggs, eggs being very different to usual, last batch being bigge eggs, different colour, thye seem so much happier :-)

She used layers of gravel, sand, soil and moss in the tank with a covering of leaves and some bark, branches, pebbles and a water feature. Most things were rinsed put not sterilised so there are lots of little creature living in the tank like springtails, worms, woodlice etc.

maybe i shouldn't talk for her, but she may log in and leave you some tips

oh and they have a lamp and heat mats!

[sonicsnail]

That's interesting. So, do springtails and other insects eat "pests" like fly lava and mites?

[sezzy5889]

I have no idea, but i was just about to say if you wanted your snails to live in a small ecosystem then you would have to let them encounter mites and unknown insects or else you wouldn't be doing it properly, it's a chance you take

[sonicsnail]

I see what you mean. Well I only rinse and wash the logs I have in there. So that might explain why I have found these worm like things. I have never sterilised items, chemically I mean. However, it would be great to get a small ecosystem going without the "pests".

[sezzy5889]

yes it would but maybe the pests are part of the ecosystem, maybe if you could find some money spiders or something (if you don't mind them) that will build small webs and catch the fruit flies etc to keep away maggots and other fly larvae

[Moracai]

Thats an idea, spiders to catch those annoying little flies.
But what little spiders would not mind the humidity of the tanks?
Would money spiders be bothered by humidity?

[sonicsnail]

Hehe, that reminds me of the time a dropped a spider in with the snails lol. Then I couldn't find it! It was one of those big hairy and scary house spiders, which I hate. I was trying to get it out and on to a piece of paper, then it fell off and in to the snail's tank! I was so worried, I though it might eat the snails lol, how stupid does that sound. Anyway, I cleaned them out the next day, but I found no spider...Mystery lol.

[sonicsnail]

Has anyone else had any luck with this idea, about ecosystems?

[section8angel]

Ask Arno also. I know he uses the woodlice and from what he's said I don't think he has to clean his tanks out too often.

I deffo like the idea of something to eat the flies, I don't like it being a spider though

[sonicsnail]

Will do...See what he says about the woodlice thing.

[Val]

I believe gabi also keeps her snails like this, with woodlice to do the cleaning up ;D

Val

[Paul]

In a natural environment some animals will eat pests, Hypoaspis occur naturally. Springtails, mites, worms and fly-larvae seem to make their way into tanks so I see no reason for predators.

The problem with clean tanks is that when something gets in, the population explodes because there is nothing to eat them, springtails are a great example of that.

Incidentally, I got a slug from outside and inspected the mites up close. I think they are Riccardoella mites, which means the tiny white mites you get on snails inside are probably these, and actually suck blood from the snail. The larger brown/red ones are probably predator mites that eat these so you may see both in your tank. I've bought hyopaspis before, they all died off and yet months and months later (after clean-outs galore) I find what I think to be hypoaspis in the tank, and the worm problem has subsided. I've actually ordered some more Hypoaspis anyway to make sure so I'll compare the two.

These little Hypoaspis are a snails best friend as they will eat just about anything comparable in size to themselves, and they are fast moving. They also do no harm to the snails and they can get in the areas inaccessible to us. Perhaps the most dangerous to snails are nematodes and they will eat them, I have a video of them doing it.

I think a natural eco-system could be great, although like Sarah says you have to put up with what you get. In a balanced eco-system neither predator nor prey are wiped out completely. So I think you'd need some things like Hypoaspis or springtail/mite populations may spiral out of control.

[sonicsnail]

Well, that's a good point. Of course, predators need prey. I am looking for some sort of smallish animal that will eat "pests" like mites but can also feed upon other small animals that are not pests to snails. So say at any given time you don't have any pests in your tank, then some of the other animals can still survive and eat of others which are also not considered to be a pest to snails, but you can still include the "non pests" in the tank as food for other “non pests”. That way ultimately, you don't get any pests in there at all. So all that should be in there is small animals that are not pests to snails, but within the small animals group there are some which feed off others, so that keeps them alive. Lets say some "pests" happen to make their way into the tank then either of the "good" animals will eat them up as an extra food besides the others in there. Get what I mean?

[Paul]

Well, Hypoaspis are what you need, the trouble is keeping them alive independently to your tanks if you want periodic clean outs or you don't want to swamp the other bugs in there as in your case. They can eat decaying matter for about 6-8 weeks so that's really their lifespan in this situation. Humidity and they live in the top layer of soil so you don't want to disturb it heavily like I did the first time around.

They are £10 for 10000 or £16 from somewhere. If you get anything set up I am happy to send you some for nowt, coz I have just bought a container which should turn up on Monday and I don't need that many. I spoke to them about selling smaller amounts to the reptile and invert market, coz who needs 10000!! But I doubt it will happen. I tell you what though, the snails in my back yard will be happy because I'll probably release some to clean up all the slugs!

I'd like to try and keep a colony of them so I could send them out to people in smaller amounts and so I don't have to keep buying them, but how is it possible unless you keep adding prey, and then I'd not be sure what I was sending to people.

[sonicsnail]

Thank you very much for the offer Paul. However, at the moment I'm going to try the woodlice theory. Arno has had success with them so I'm going to give it a try. I'll let you know if I decide to try out these Hypoaspis things lol. I'm not even sure what they look like though...

Thanks again,

Sonic

[apple]

I found a small spider that lives on my fulica tanks, she moves fast looking for small flies, and don´t do nothing on the snails. I´ve seen some colourfull spiders on the garden, very small and nice, but don´t know if I can bring some to my tanks.
I brought home on friday, some bark with colourful lichens, leaf litter and I hope to bring also some ferns.

[sonicsnail]

Oh cool, sounds good apple. I guess you get this from garden centers?

[apple]

No, I got from the garden and forests near home.

[sonicsnail]

Ooooo forests, lucky you, bet there's loads of snails to find there.

[apple]

Yes, indeed, but more on the grassland an on the edges of the forest.
I know also some plants that provide nice habitat to snails, like Agapanthus plants.

[Paul]

I didn't mean to keep your tank clean, and woodlice sound a good way to go because they are large enough to remove ready for cleaning. I just meant, if you left all the springtails etc, in you'd probably need something to control their numbers.

[sonicsnail]

Aaaahhhhh what IS that! Omg, they look scary lol. They eat springtails?

[Paul]

They eat anything they can get hold of it seems. They're tiny though, 1-2mm maximum.