Use own shell as calcium source?

[snailhappy]

I'm going to post our introductions in the appropriate section, but will say we are new to having pet snails and have found this website to be an invaluable learning tool for our entire family. Thank you!

We've had our snails (Cepaea nemoralis and hortensis) for around three weeks. I did not realize how important calcium was to their diet and have given them their first cuttlebone today.

Yesterday, I noticed that two of our snails had white sections on their shells. At first I thought it was mildew, but upon closer inspection, noted that it looked more like the shiny surface of the shell had been scratched off or worn away.

Later, I noticed another snail on top of the shell of an affected snail in exactly the same spot of the white markings. I thought it might be some sort of communal healing process. Later still, I saw that Shelly (one of the affected snails) was turned onto her own shell. I watched in fascination for a while, (as I have now become accustomed) wondering what she was doing.

Is it possible that our snails have been using their own shells to provide them with the calcium they need? If so, is the damage to their shells irreparable? What can I do to restore their shells, if anything? If it isn't likely they are using it as a calcium source, what could be an explanation for the appearance of a worn, scratched shell?

My children and I have grown surprisingly attached to these creatures and would be devastated if we unknowingly caused them harm. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Bumblebee]

If snails cant find any calcium, they will begin to eat on either their own shells, or their tankmates shells. Im not sure if you can fully restore the shells to their orignal state, but make sure to offer the snails as much calcium as possible.
Maybe you could even scrape the cuttlefish bone with a knife above the substrate, so that the snails also absorb some calcium when just crawling around.

[snailhappy]

Thank you for getting back to us so quickly. We noticed another of the smaller snails on the back of the two larger snails this morning. I will do as you suggested, but going forward, what exactly is a sufficient calcium supply for the snails?

We have 8 in total and purchased one cuttlefish bone (for birds) from the pet store. Do I put the whole thing in and let them at it? Should I give it in smaller doses over time and if so, how much of the bone at once?

Also, we've been using manure and humus mix for substrate. Would you suggest something else?

My daughter (8) was thrilled to know we were communicating with someone from another country about our snails! Thanks so much!

[crossless]

I think snail don't eat it's own shell. i have noticed snails eat other snails shell not their own. Once I started keeping snails I had poor calsium source because I didn't know what cuttle look like so i was hard to find for.. My snails kind of slept till I week later found calsium and placed them on that and they were again active and kept going to calsium source.

Snails can't repair missing whorls if they been eating them. Snails can repair broken shell is piece is missing but it may not look as great as the shell they have had since birth.

I have siin in wild quite lot empty shell that don't look like bird would been breaking them so I think in some cases in wild they would eat when dead snails shells.

[lee2211]

Nope, snails do eat their own shells. Mine are doing it, despite being supplied with enough calcium.
Garden snails aren't used to having Cuttlefish so probably wont eat much of it anyway. I cover my food with limestone flour and mix it in with the substrate for my garden snails. This seems to be doing them fine.
The damage wot be reparable unless it's only very slight. But even then it might not, my GALS aren't repairing it. I think they keep doing it because when they had mites they got into the habbit of it and have continued doing it, a bit like how we bite our nails.
But also, try giving them soaked dog biscuits and occasionly sprinkle fishflakes on their food this will help with protein and therefore shell growth.

Oh and yes Crossless, snails do eat other snails shells in the wild if a calcium source hasn't been provided. The same as in captivity. I have bared witness to this when I rescued some snails some time ago, all the ones alive were eating the dead ones. It's simple really, eat or get eaten.

[coyote]

Hi snailhappy, welcome to the forum! Glad you find it helpful.

A snail will rasp at its own shell for purposes other than getting calcium. A little bit of rasping is okay; every snail does it now and then. Other snails will go after the apex of the shell and can eat right through, but that usually happens only to empty shells or dead snails.

There's more information on the main website about calcium and food:
www.petsnails.co.uk/care/feeding.html#f_calcium

The appearance of your snails' shells might never be repaired, but unless the shell itself is really thin, they should be okay regardless of how they look.

My wild caught snails have taken to cuttle. For 8 snails, I'd probably start out with half the cuttle bone, broken up into 3 or 4 pieces, rinsed off, and placed around the tank, and observe the rate of consumption. Snails can also absorb calcium through their foot, so they may sit on the cuttle for a while instead of rasping at it.

Powdered limestone can be found on eBay. It has an advantage of being mixable into the substrate so the snail has no choice but to come in contact with it, plus it can be sprinkled on their food.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

[lee2211]

What type of snails do you keep Coyote? I've Helix Aspersa and as yet haven't shown any interest whatsoever in Cuttle. So I cover all their food in Limestone Flour, bar one peice which they can eat if they don't want calcium. I'm hoping this is alright. They're not growing, well not in a way I can see, I assume their growing habbits differ from those of GALS so I'm not sure what new growth would look like.

[crossless]

I have noticed too that snails rasp shell little growing snails smooth shell so they can move their mantle and I don't think random rasping as having shell as calsium source.

In here Finland some keepers have have had problems with some wc snails offspring when they don't know how to use cuttle so I think with wc snails would be wise to sprinkle on food..

If I find some wc snails, it would be nice to try use as calsium source empty snail shells when I live in area that has snails as pests so calsium would be easy to get access during spring/summer/autumn. Well I have to wait till I get my dad drive me one place that has possible some Helix pomatias those I want to my collection still.

That mixing calsium to soil is great idea because on one nature documentary few weeks ago they told that snails live in areas that ground is really calcareous so they get calsium through their skin.

Some people add some reptile calsium drops to water and use that water in daily spraying.

[kanin]

I've never seen white sections occur due to rasping, damages from rasping are to my experince most often in the form of thinner or missing parts of the shell. As Coyote says there are many reasons for snails to rasp on their own shell. I personally don't think they ever do this to aquire calcium as it would be a very contra-productive behavior, most often it is a form of cleaning and rinsing. If damages from intense rasping occurs they are often around the lip of the shell and then due to irritation like mites.

White sections or patches can sometimes occur when the shell come in contact with a too acidic substrate. This in my experience is more frequent with more colorful snails like cepaea species and Otala species.

Potting soil which I often use in my substrate mixes or often too acidic and if that's whats your using you could try mixing it with powdered calcium to increase basicity, which would also provide a natural calcium source for your snails.

Hope i've been of help
emil

[lee2211]

The damage i've seen is just slight discolouration of the shell. It's the same colour as new shell growth and this is obviously because they've been rasping at it, then repairing it, meaning they can't get any pattern or normal colouration on this particular area of damaged shell.
It does seem weird them eating their own shells for calcium, but they are animals and there is no way we could possibly fathom as to why they would do it. We can only guess. But it does make sense them eating shells of dead snails for calcium.
It says on the Petsnails website all the reasons as to why they could eat their own shells and how to sort it out. You could maybe give some of those ideas a try.
www.petsnails.co.uk/problems/rasping_shell.html#start

[crossless]

White parts is not rasping shell is with snail all of it's life so after time color layer will vanish from most used part of shell just like this.. I'm too lazy to write text again so I shall quote myself from supersnails:

Apr 23, 2010 1:52:24 GMT crossless said:

If it looks in those pictures there's nothing to worry about snails have same shell all of their lives and it job is to protect vital organs. I don't mind of their "ugly" uneven shell if it does it job and it has no holes or cracks in their shells that would risk snails to have infections or diseases.

Snails stuff their self small spaces and after time it might shown as white shell when snails are old some of the color layer will vanish after frictions cause of normal life like digging, shells touches other shell when climbing, snails gets stuck somewhere etc and there's nothing really prevent it.

[lee2211]

Yes but Crossless as well as that may be, colour loss can be from other snails or the snail itself rasping on the shell, it may be lightly but if it's rasping the top layer of the shell the colour can be lost without serious damage to the shell.

[coyote]

Jun 12, 2010 20:12:17 GMT lee2211 said:

What type of snails do you keep Coyote?

At the moment I have 2 H. aspersa, 1 Otala lactea and 2 Oxychilus alliarius.

[snailhappy]

Thank you everyone the information and direction to additional resources. Our snail, Shelly, has similar markings to those of Crossless. Shelly is of the Cepaea species and the scratched part of the shell is at the center of the swirl (again we're new to this, so forgive the non-technical identification!), so I wouldn't think it would be from general wear.

We're watching the two affected snails closely and have provided our gang a plentiful supply of cuttle (powder in the substrate, on food and in chunks throughout the snailarium). They seem to be doing well and despite the scratch marks on their shells.

Thank you, Crossless, for taking the time to load the pictures here for us to see. Beautiful snail. If I knew how to do it, I would send some out of our snails. A picture is worth 1000 words!

How can I load photos and add an image to our profile?

[lee2211]

petsnails.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=forumproblems&action=display&thread=7910
petsnails.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=forumproblems&action=display&thread=5516

coyote, I have H. Aspersa to, I've got a stick in their tank and I put limestone flour on their food, and they have cuttlefish to. I think they're full grown, but I don't know what the shell growth would look like on a garden snail as I'm only used to GALS. But I they're not really growing much and I just wondered if what I'm doing is OK?

[coyote]

There is going to be some degree of variation in size with garden snails, same as with people. Shell size runs between 25–40 mm in diameter and 25–35 mm high. It sounds like what you are doing is okay.

Snailhappy, PM me if you need help posting a pic.

* Tread is locked, because there's too many same named treads around here about calsium. Let's write here next time we have some question or something else to say.. -> petsnails.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=feeding&action=display&thread=8421 - CroSSLeSS *