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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 29, 2005 10:11:22 GMT
I am considering letting a couple of my snails go into hibernatio, but not for as long as wild snails do and not as cold as some... I read this....
Snails will adjust to remarkably low temperatures if they are arrived at slowly e ugh. Snails put suddenly in a cold chamber will die in a short time. Yet if several days are taken to gradually reach the temperature in the cold chamber, these snails will undergo physiological changes, including the alteration of the water content of the cells, and withstand successfully the lower temperatures for prolonged periods of time.
they can go to 30°f
The heart may slow down from 36 beats per minute to only three or four.
What do you guys think?
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Post by anjieburdett on Sept 29, 2005 10:17:03 GMT
Why do you want to let them hibernate?
I know they are amazing creatures in being able to do this but on the other hand these are tropical snails and its totally unatural for them to do this in their natural environment.
Anjie,x.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 29, 2005 10:24:34 GMT
It encourages breeding
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Post by anjieburdett on Sept 29, 2005 10:46:50 GMT
Does it really? How long are you thinking about hibernating them for - i thought you meant all winter. (didn't read your post properly dohh) It certainly wouldn't hurt them for a short period - wouldn't it be awful if they were left to hibernate all winter and didn't wake up in the end But wow - think of the money you'd save on food rofl. (not if they died - while they hibernated i meant ;D) Anjie,x.
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Post by Paul on Sept 29, 2005 11:26:35 GMT
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apple
Archachatina degneri
Posts: 1,078
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Post by apple on Sept 29, 2005 11:39:01 GMT
If there in Uk people use heat mat why GALS hibernate there? Daylight during period is too short? But english people don´t use artificiall lighting? And even in artificiall hot conditions they hibernate ?....
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Post by Paul on Sept 29, 2005 12:01:37 GMT
Well, they aestivate in the wild, rather than hibernate, like Anjie said. West Africa doesn't really drop below 24c. It is the wetness that changes as the seasons are divided by wet and dry periods, the dry ones forcing aestivation. I mean, we know they can hibernate; fulica have survived minus conditions but it isn't naturally occurring. As for light period, with them being equatorial, the light period only drops to 11 hours so it isn't a mile away from us in view of us supplementing with artificial lighting generally (I don't mean tubes, I just mean house lights, although I intend to get UV when I have the money spare).
Now, a period of dryness may helpto encourage breeding because it is in the subsequent wet season that they are active and breed. In my view, aestivation may encourage breeding but I can't see any natural precursor with hibernation. That's why I want to know where the info comes from. I want to keep the website as accurate as possible, but I want supported claims, rather than hearsay.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 29, 2005 12:07:15 GMT
I don't quite understand that last messege soz, (by apple)
It encourages breeding because when the temperature drops, to the snails this is winter, too cold to eat, to cold to drink and too cold to breed, when you raise the temperature again they come out of hibernation they eat and drink to recouperate and then go in search for a mate so that they can breed as much as possible before the cold weather comes again. But where in the wild they could be in hibernation for up to 6 months, to me thats to much of a risk so i was thinking more around 2-3 months.
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Post by funkyphie on Sept 29, 2005 12:17:53 GMT
Hi Sarah,
I do let my snails estivate - normally in winter. OFten i will go away for a little while and find them all sealed up. I've never had any problems of leaving them like this for a few weeks. Not sure i would leave them for anything longer - they are captive and are used to having food given to them on a regular basis, whereas in the wild i would imagine there are times when food is less available, hence they have to aestivate.
However, i haven't noticed any increase in breeding capabilities with my snails though i can see the logic in it.
Phie
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Post by Paul on Sept 29, 2005 12:30:31 GMT
It encourages breeding because when the temperature drops, to the snails this is winter, too cold to eat, to cold to drink and too cold to breed, when you raise the temperature again they come out of hibernation they eat and drink to recouperate and then go in search for a mate so that they can breed as much as possible before the cold weather comes again. Are you talking about European snails? Coz in Africa, the temperature doesn't drop, or rather it does by only about 3-4c: www.petsnails.co.uk/index.php?action=environment&type=westafricaso there isn't a winter and it's never too cold to eat or breed etc.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 29, 2005 12:34:45 GMT
It's for fulica mainly as they can withstand colder temperatures, obviously you wouldn't go as cold with other species but if you decrease the temperature and food amount slowly the snails adapt to it and can therefore stay in that state for longer periods of time
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apple
Archachatina degneri
Posts: 1,078
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Post by apple on Sept 29, 2005 13:09:25 GMT
What are your doubts about my doubts Sarah? I agree with you Paul. Just talked about hibernation because there are some cases of it, course that they don´t do it in tropical West Africa. After aestivation snails put eggs but, not only after that,during the wet season too. To support this, it´s my experience on the field researching animals. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2005 13:12:41 GMT
well, since you say your snails are already thin, i would not advise it. snails can lose a lot of weight hibernating, so if you do let them, don't let it be for too long.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 29, 2005 13:42:57 GMT
only two of my snails are ill, i don't even know whether i'm going to do it yet i'm still doing research on it
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Post by anjieburdett on Sept 29, 2005 14:07:17 GMT
Its not natural for fulica to go into deep hibernation though Sarah - thats what we're saying. There's no winter and freezing conditions in Africa.
Anjie,x.
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Post by natrat84 on Sept 29, 2005 14:38:18 GMT
Why are you wanting to encourage breeding in fulica? Aren't there enough without homes already?
Also I agree with others. Its not natural for these animals to be at that low a temperature, they never ever are, even in the winter.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 29, 2005 15:07:12 GMT
ok ok i get it everyones against the idea, end of discussion! yeesh
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Post by anjieburdett on Sept 29, 2005 15:13:10 GMT
Well - you did ask rofl lmao ;D
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
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Post by Val on Sept 29, 2005 15:17:55 GMT
What is the difference between aestivation & hibernation ??
Val
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2005 15:30:07 GMT
aestivation is in the summer when its too hot and they put a thin slime layer over the aperture. this is usually only for a few weeks
hibernation is in winter when they put a thick door of slime over the aperture - the epiphragm. this lasts from oct-april
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Post by section8angel on Sept 29, 2005 16:02:33 GMT
Ahh that's what mine do sometimes. Aestivation!
They did it a few times this summer when it got REALLY warm! All I had to do though was spray the tank and break the slie layer carefully and out they came all refreshed lol.
Nice to know it's normal. I thought it was too weird for hibernation lol
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Post by Paul on Sept 29, 2005 16:16:37 GMT
ok ok i get it everyones against the idea, end of discussion! yeesh Not necessarily, I have often wondered about both hibernation and aestivation for a few purposes. Firstly, a book I got years ago which mentions land snails recommeded using aestivation if you have to leave your snails for longer periods of time than a couple of days. Also, I wonder if there would be any mileage for illness. Aestivation in particular may slow the metabolism for the snail but not any bugs or parasites, whereas cold probably would for both. Perhaps, a snail can effectively break the parasite cycle by aestivating. While it is not eating the worms aren't. This obviously depends on pests that live in the bowels rather than feed off the snail. What do you think?
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Arno
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Post by Arno on Sept 29, 2005 18:49:58 GMT
I don't think its a good idea to let sick snails aestivate because they loose a lot of moisture this way making the snail weaker.Hardly what you are aiming for I would think.Also you don't know for sure what the worms will do,if the snails resistance drops they could get the upper hand.
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Sept 29, 2005 19:37:08 GMT
Yes I totally agree with Arno, I don't think lowering the snails resistance would benefit it at all.
Val
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Post by Paul on Sept 30, 2005 1:47:40 GMT
Yeah, you're probably right. I'm clutching at straws, coz I've spent all my time trying to think of ways to help my sick snail
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