margie ovum?

[Deleted]

www.femorale.com.br/shellphotos/photo.asp?url=%2Fshellphotos%2Fthumbpage%2Easp%3Ffamily%3DACHATINIDAE&photo=23435

that one looks just like my 2 big margies



(the snail on the left)

when i compare the femorale picture with my snail in the same way, they look exactly the same, even the orange columella!

what do you think? what actually are the differences between ovum and margies?
i looked around and saw a few pictures of margies with orange columellas. now im really confused...

[Deleted]

i put the snail in the scanner, here is the columella

[natrat84]

Omg Mike, I can't believe you put your snail on the scanner PMSL!!!!!

[Deleted]

well sorry i don't have a super duper digital camera like you all do...

[natrat84]

Lol. Mines digital but it isn't super duper I was just laughing at the thought of a snail sliming over the scanner lol.

[Arno]

Well they margies on the femorale site had pink tips and the inside of the shell was white.I don't know however if the pink tip is good point of ID.

[Deleted]

the tip isnt pink look again

www.femorale.com.br/shellphotos/photo.asp?url=%2Fshellphotos%2Fthumbpage%2Easp%3Ffamily%3DACHATINIDAE&photo=23435

(sorry u have to fill in the gap)

pink tip means it is suturalis

[Paul]

You get normal margies with pink tips. Suturalis is smaller, more slender with deeper sutures.

I thought my margies were ovum but I've never managed to determine it, ovum are usually bigger than normal marginata. But the book doesn't really give a good way of telling them apart.

[Deleted]

so can normal margies have an orange columella? i need to know for when i sell the babies (if they hatch)

it says in the petsnails description of margies that orange columella means ovum

[Arno]

Ok made a mistake :the ovum has a shell which is white on the inside.But the margies definately have a pink tip:
www.femorale.com.br/shellphotos/photo.asp?url=%2Fshellphotos%2Fthumbpage%2Easp%3Ffamily%3DACHATINIDAE&photo=20886

[Leah]

You put your snail in the scanner?! Poor thing!

[Paul]

There is no actual description of normal margies from Bequaert's point of view. There is only comments on descriptions by other people and not much of use is given away. Once again you have to read between the lines. Here's a few bits that may help...

"...and with columella and parietal wall white, which I herewith designate as the nominate race of the species..."

Then in the Ovum section there is this:

"The coloration is the same, except for the columella which is more or less apricot-yellow, this color often extended upward over much of the glazed area of the parietal wall; a narrow outer zone of both parietal wall and columella remains blueish-white. The summit of the spire (first three whorls) also is usually suffused with yellow or orange-yellow."

The suturalis description is same as marginata but it seems that a reddish columella is how you identify suturalis over other specimens.

All this inferred knowledge is frustrating. I'm gonna start modelling this book somehow, to see if it can be reduced to a truth table.

[Paul]

You see, now according to that info, the one you showed mike is an Ovum, the one you showed Arno is a suturalis. So perhaps it would be fair to say that a very red spire is a good indication of suturalis. I have seen some margies with white columellas but with light pink spires.

"...although I have seen examples of the nominate race of marginata with decidedly pink summit."

So disgregarding more obscure variants we have:

White columella = var. marginata
Yellow columella (with white/blue outer zone) = var. ovum
Red/Orange columella = var. suturalis

There is also var. egregiella which has a red spire and outer lip but he fails to mention the columella color.
Also var. egregia has a bright red columella and is similar to var. marginata but is slightly more convex.
var. clenchi also has a pale red spire.

I think it may be possible to condense this. It seems the ones with white or white/blue columellas can be distinguished by other features. And the ones with red columellas also may have enough to differentiate them.

I'll try and do this. The problem is that the book isn't a guide to these snails, it's more like a guide to where others went wrong. So the whole margie section needs reading quite a few times and even then it is hard to know if Bequaert is stating something or if its someone's elses.

I'd just point out that the very fact that they are variants rather than sub-species indicates that it is mainly geographic reasons why there are different types. Effectively margies are margies. Suturalis for instance comes from Sao Tome and Principe which was cut-off from Africa and represents a more temperate climate. Which may explain why people with possible suturalis seem to report much easier breeding.

[Arno]

That last sentence makes sense because all of my baby margies seem to have pinkish apexes,indicating that one of the parents was the suturalis.

[Deleted]

i noticed something about my margies columella. it was orange on the inside but on the outside it was like...er...mother of pearl, like on seashells. it shone this iridescent blue colour.

my margies sound like ovum based on every description i could find. the periostracum on the apex of mine is gone but i think if it were there it would be sort of yellow.

so i should assume theyre ovum?

[Deleted]

why are they called ovum anyway if ovum means 'egg'

[Paul]

Not sure, I need to look into it more. Perhaps it is the shape or is related to the white/yellow colour.

[Deleted]

Raphael said that the only differences are internal genital ones or something....the translator wasnt very good...

but im convinced theyre ovum and thats what im gonna sell the babies as (if they hatch)

kind regards

mike