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Post by eric2 on Feb 19, 2007 22:59:16 GMT
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Feb 20, 2007 0:37:03 GMT
Hi Arno, Thanks for your reply - suspected the surgical option was a no-goer, but had to ask.
Hi Eric2 Thanks for your help - very thoughtful. But I still don't know if these "things" snakelady is passing are abnormal eggs or parasites.
Wouldn't parasites that are large enough to see - show some signs of life/movement?
Does anyone know - if these are parasites - is there any danger to my family?
Thanks for everyones help Love Snakelady
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Feb 20, 2007 4:08:28 GMT
Some kinds of parasites go into a dormant or encysted state periodically, but I don't know if that's true for species that could infest a slug specifically.
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Feb 21, 2007 19:35:37 GMT
Hi Everyone,
Just a very quick update - snakelady's condition remain on the whole unchanged - still passing these "things" - still don't really know if they are eggs or parasites.
Sadly, today a very good friend lost her daughter to cancer - so if I'm not around much, you'll know why.
Please remember them in your prayers.
Love Snakelady
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Feb 24, 2007 2:01:01 GMT
Hi Everyone, Does anyone know if slugs can get depressed? snakelady has seemed very low these last couple of days - and she is totally refusing to eat. It almost 48 hours since she passed any "eggs" - I had thought this would have perked her up - but she's very low, and sad looking Any suggestions? Thanks, Love Snakelady
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Feb 26, 2007 20:21:42 GMT
Hi Guys, Some more news on snakelady. This seems rather strange to me - I posted 2 days ago that she hadn't passed any more eggs for 48 hours - well that continued for another 36 hours. Yesterday, masses of eggs started pouring out again - this time all either pale pink or white. Now the strange thing is - it seems to have started her eating again Anyone have any idea what's going on with her? I'd have expected the days she wasn't passing these abnormal eggs, she would have felt better. But she seemed very depressed, and wouldn't eat at all. Now that the "laying" has resumed, she's eating again[only small amounts], and seems much brighter and happier!!! Have I lost my mind? Or is there a reasonable explanation? Very Confused Snakelady
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Post by copigeon on Feb 26, 2007 20:30:24 GMT
Could it be... what youre assuming are eggs, could just be the passing of food through the gut? Waste? It food = the "eggs" it seems a reasonable conclusion.
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 2, 2007 16:29:02 GMT
Hi Copigeon, Thanks for your reply- it made me stop and think seriously. So I've been watching very carefully, as I had worried that snakelady was terribly constipated. But the last few days she's been eating really well - started with porridge oats, now onto muesli, cucumber and turkey mince. And her bowels are now moving, and what she passes looks similar to what our little visitors pass - fairly dark, and long and stringy, looks nothing like the "eggs". Though I've yet to observe where the waste comes from. But the "eggs" definitely still appear to be coming from the breathing hole. So I suppose a good question would be - can anyone describe slug poo? and does it exit the body near the breathing hole? Some more news - a couple of days ago another Limax Maximus came to visit, it's an adolescent by the looks, and very exuberant. We thought there would be no danger in them mixing as they are the same species. So snakelady has a crazy little friend. Though snakelady is still quite exhausted, and at times passes large amounts of these "abnormal eggs", her little friend [churchill - has huge V shaped antenna which stand straight up, like the famous Churchill Victory sign], has certainly cheered little Snakelady up. Between naps, she quite active, has put on weight, and is getting her beautiful yellow colouring back. But, I think she'll have her hands full teaching churchill some basic etiquette. Last night they were sitting shoulder to shoulder munching away on their muesli, when churchill decided she wanted the flack snakelady was eating, so she just turned around and started munching on it, and actually pulled it out of snakelady's mouth, and ate the lot . Snakelady is very gentle and patient, but today she was scouting around every inch - I think she was marking out her territory, maybe her first step in putting the little upstart in her place. They both look great, and I hope will become good friends. Talk to you soon, Love Snakelady
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Arno
Archachatina puylaerti
Posts: 1,493
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Post by Arno on Mar 2, 2007 16:59:09 GMT
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 2, 2007 17:12:48 GMT
Hi Arno, Now that was a fast reply, thank you. Had a look at the picture of slug poo - afraid it doesn't look like anything I,ve seen from snakelady or churchill [ or any of the visiting slugs]. Don't really know what to make of that. Don't really know what to make of that fact that we're sitting here talking about slug poo in public either I'll keep watching, and reporting, thanks for all your help. Love Snakelady
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Post by Paul on Mar 2, 2007 17:34:55 GMT
It's only just dawned on me that what you were describing as eggs may be faeces. The anus is located very near the breathing hole and snail/slug faeces changes depending on what they've eaten and how much. It can be coloured, lumpy or stringy.
Also, a while back we discovered that millet causes digestion problems in snails in the same way pasta does. It can't be digested probably causing water retention and sometimes death. A post-mortem by Fredrik showed that there were undigested lumps of it in the intestines and the ones that survived passed faeces containing it.
Could it be possible that Snakelady had eaten something she was struggling to digest and then she's been trying to flush it out, and it's coming out lumpy and horrible?
Black stringy faeces is usually present when they've eaten soil. They do this after eating food in a sort of two stage eating process and I think the soil flora and fauna aid digestion.
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 2, 2007 18:15:19 GMT
Hi Paul, Thanks for your reply. The feaces Vs egg issue is getting very confusing isn't it - must be awful having to deal with all us new-comers, who don't know the difference between an egg and poo I don't know what snakelady had eaten before she came to stay with me. One night she visited and was the picture of health, the next night she returned almost dead, and as never left again. It was that initial, very fast deterioration that first made me think she had encountered some sort of poison. For roughly 2 weeks, she ate nothing, and passed nothing. Then, still without having eaten, she had what looked liked 2 episodes of very watery diarrhea, immediately followed by the first expulsion of the very dark "eggs". I actually saw both the diarrhea and eggs being expelled that night, and it looked like the diarrhea was coming from an unseen opening, underneath her mantle, but definitely anterior to her breathing hole. Whereas the "eggs" definitely came out via the breathing hole. It seems to me [though I may be completely wrong], that she wouldn't have passed that original mass of "eggs", which we're now speculating may have been feaces, without eating for 2 weeks. How could that be waste product, if no food had been consumed? Then she continued passing large amounts of "eggs", but only occasionally eating tiny amounts of food. If the eggs are indeed feaces, then intake and output certainly don't seem to equate. Hopefully, now that churchill has arrived, I'll have something to compare. But her last large expulsion of "eggs" [unfortunately during the night, so not observed], seemed to be lying on top of a little mound of feaces, and both components were very different in appearance. Now she eating fairly well, but nowhere near as much as churchill, and her diet consists of the following - porridge oats, muesli, cucumber, beef mince and turkey mince, and a little lettuce. Would any of these cause her digestive problems? I hope now that she looking so much better, and eating regularly, though still small amounts, that I'll be able to get more variety into her diet - hoping to introduce a mix of seeds, and maybe some watercress. Does that sound OK? Many thanks for everyone's help and advice Love Snakelady.
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Mar 2, 2007 18:33:31 GMT
I was just wondering reading this if you could maybe send some of the 'eggs' to someone on here who could perhaps identify exactly what they are. I would gladly volunteer to receive them and examine them but unfortunately I have no idea what to look for and have no idea what healthy/unhealthy slug poo should look like either. Perhaps after reading this post some kind person willl offer to give you a second opinion on what these 'eggs' really are.
Val
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 2, 2007 20:21:20 GMT
Hi Val, Thank you for that wonderful idea If any kind person would like to volunteer, I'll gladly share some poo and "eggs" with you - and not even charge for them ;D Love Snakelady
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Post by copigeon on Mar 3, 2007 18:14:54 GMT
I'd be happy to give it a go, but first I think I might be able to clear up the identification with some photos. I keep a photographic diary of every new happening in my shed because Im so bad at recording dates with pen and paper. Every photo is dated so I know when things happened. I have some pictures of eggs from my Veronicell sloanei. I'd imagine slug eggs are fairly universal in thier colour, so maybe this will help you make the distinction? With regards to "slug poo". That photograph linked isnt very clear. Essentially its no different than snail waste, but I'll see about some pictures of that also? Veronicella sloanei eggs.... I have another of them a few days before hatching, they turn a pinkish colour as you can see the slug developing. Having found common slug eggs which look exactly the same, I would say if they in no way resemble that, you can rule out eggs as a possibility.
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Arno
Archachatina puylaerti
Posts: 1,493
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Post by Arno on Mar 3, 2007 20:27:20 GMT
Snakelady,found this picture of Limax maximus with eggs,hope this will tell you if they are eggs or something different.
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 4, 2007 0:48:08 GMT
Hi Copigeon and Arno,
Thanks for your replies, photos, and all your help.
I,ve looked closely at both pics - the two pics look similar - but neither look anything like what snakelady is passing. What I've been calling eggs, definitely come from her breathing hole, the exit is preceded by lengthy bouts of very painful looking peristalsis. The breathing hole itself looks very large and rigid at these times, but momentarily closes just prior to the expulsion.
The "eggs" themselves have varied over time - initially being very dark drown/Burgundy in color, but more often now, they are pinkish or cream colored. Often passed in long strings stuck together, though occasionally a few separate eggs are passed. The shape varies from round to long oblongs, usually the latter. Prior to expulsion, a clear liquid can be seen seeping from the breathing hole. On one occasion [detailed earlier in the thread], a very large amount of eggs were passed very quickly - they were dark brown, and many were ruptured, and a large mass of dark brown semi-congealed liquid was passed at the same time. The mass of "eggs" and fluid was so much that it covered the whole right side of her body, and even flowed underneath her, and all around her face. We both got a real fright.
She looks really well know, and last night and today has ate well. Her color is returning, and her energy levels though still low, are improving. Over the last couple of days, she has continued to pass a few pink oblong "eggs" from her breathing hole. And she passed on large mass of dark brown "eggs" during the night [2 nights ago], on top of what appeared to be a little pile of waste. The eggs and waste were clearly distinct from each other.
Since she has started eating well again, on several occasions I have seen her pass waste - it looks nothing like the "eggs", and definitely doesn't come from her breathing hole - Rather anterior to the hole, and underneath the mantle.
So, if these "eggs" aren't eggs, and they aren't waste - what else could they be that comes from her breathing hole?
Thanks for all your help, Love Snakelady
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Soxsie
Achatina fulica
Posts: 6
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Post by Soxsie on Mar 4, 2007 14:53:24 GMT
I have just read your thread right the way through, even though i am not a new member i have not logged on for a few months. Anyway i found it really touching and i can see that you obviously care for Snakelady. I have to say i am not an expert on slugs but i know alot more about them after reading the thread. I am glad Snakelady seems to be getting well and hope it continues.
Soxsie
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Post by copigeon on Mar 4, 2007 15:27:30 GMT
It could be mucas... slugs will produce thick mucas within that lung cavity when affected by something like salt. If it was an infection, be it viral bacterial or parasitic, it could be a build up of mucas which the slug ejects from its lung when it gets too much? Similar to what you see in snails with a mite infection. That would explain why it comes from the airhole.
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 4, 2007 19:39:43 GMT
Hi Copigeon,
Thanks for replying yet again. I don't really know how to answer your suggestion that it is mucus that snakelady is passing through her air hole. I don't want to seem dismissive, because I really appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. But, saying that, it really doesn't look like mucus alone - there definitely is a component of mucus among the mess, but the solid "blocks" which I've been calling "eggs", seem far to well formed to be mucus alone. Of course, I could be completely wrong. I'll keep watching, and reporting, but the good news is she's looking great at the moment, and eating well - and though I'm afraid to say it - she maybe recovering.
Hi Soxsie, Thanks for you're lovely note - snakelady really seems to win hearts doesn't she? She is totally adorable, and I appreciate how lucky I am that she came to me for help. It's been a real emotional roller coaster, as she keeps improving and relapsing, and there have been many, many sleepless nights. I don't know how I would have managed with all the help from the forum. I'm glad the thread is teaching something about slugs, and I hope others will benefit - but most of all I'm very grateful that I still have my beautiful little snakelady. You know, when she's up and about playing and getting petted, her antenna are extended, and she looks like the loveliest slug in the world - but when settles down for a nap, or down for the night, she sleeps on a lettuce leaf, and had another leaf for her blanket, only her lovely little head sticks out. And as I gently talk her to sleep, her antenna and face retract under her mantle - she looks like a tiny dolphin - she's so sweet. I love her to bits.
Thanks everyone, Talk soon, Love Snakelady
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Post by copigeon on Mar 4, 2007 19:46:04 GMT
Well, Ive observed mucus produced by garden snails which is, as you have described. Like hard jelly. When I say mucus this is what I mean, rather than the watery slime it suggests. Have seen the same thing in ill land snails. Thick hard jelly like substance. I dont recall colours, but presumably that depends on whats causing the problem. So it would be something to consider. Hope she is finally on the turn Would be nice to see a happy end.
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Soxsie
Achatina fulica
Posts: 6
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Post by Soxsie on Mar 4, 2007 20:19:55 GMT
Hi Again Snakelady
I am glad that you think that Snakelady maybe on the road to recovery. I, like copigeon would love to see a happy ending. I think Snakelady has won alot of hearts over by way of this thread and I know that she has won mine. By coincidence i happen to have a thing about dolphins and if Snakelady looks like a minature one then i am sure she is absolutely adorable. If like Copigeon suggested that it is mucus then i am sure that any slug/snail lover will benefit alot from the thread and if a cause and solution or even a diagnosis is found that would be great.
I have my fingers and my toes crossed for her
Best Wishes and Hope You Get A Good Night's Sleep Soon
Lucy (Soxsie)
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 4, 2007 23:12:15 GMT
Hi Copigeon, I'm sorry if my previous post seemed dismissive of your suggestion - that certainly wasn't the intent. I hadn't realized that mucus "blocks" could be so well formed. If it is all mucus she's passing, does that suggest a chest infection? And if so, is there any treatment? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had a snail/slug vet? By the way, the Children's book idea is going great, hope to get a chance to update you soon. Thanks for all your help, Love Snakelady.
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Post by copigeon on Mar 4, 2007 23:30:14 GMT
Snakelady I didnt take it as being dismissive Just wanted to clarify what I meant, as its not natural to assume slime or mucas could have a almost hard jelly texture. Mucas is generally formed as a defense, so it could still be viral, bacterial or pest/poison based cause? Which is back to the initial question But would explain maybe the shuddering you described? If the animal was having difficulty breathing? Trying to for want of a better description "clear her throat". All guess work.
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snakelady
Achatina fulica
"To err is human; to slime,sublime." D.G.Gordon
Posts: 6
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Post by snakelady on Mar 6, 2007 23:06:34 GMT
Hi everyone, Another update on snakelady. She looks absolutely wonderful ;D She been eating really well for a good few days now, and has put on quite a bit of weight, which is great - she'd gotten far too skinny. She basically, eating and sleeping, with just occasionally trips around, and some fun. But I'd had a really hard time getting her to co-operate with her convalescence at first. The moment she felt even a little better, she just wanted to play. But she's been much more sensible know, and resting after she eats - think that's a lot to do with the weight gain. Her lovely yellow colour is almost completely back now, and she's starting to really enjoy her baths. Though, I must admit, one night she didn't want to come off her lettuce into the bath, and I thought I knew best - so snakelady, lettuce leaf and all got plopped into the bath. Have you ever seen a slug with a petted lip? She gave me the biggest petted lip in history , and very time I spoke to her, the lip got bigger - no goodnight kisses that night. So, a lesson learned - when a slug doesn't want a bath - don't give it a bath. I love her, she so funny, who would believe a slug would go in a huff with you. Says a lot about their intelligence and ability to interact. Remember a couple of days ago, she got a little friend in, and I called him churchill because of his huge antenna - err this is a little embarrassing -" he" laid an egg last night - seems to be a gender mix up on my part. And this was a totally normal looking egg, even came from the correct place. It was a bit of a shock though, so I'll have to rethink the name. But they both look great, and are doing really well Talk to you soon, Love Snakelady
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