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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 31, 2012 16:24:40 GMT
Well, I think you're taking a bit too defensive position to what copigeon is saying. Instead of taking it as an attack on you, re-read it coming from someone who has a bit of experience with the subject matter you're thinking of embarking upon.
Reading your reactions here really gives the impression that something said in this topic has hit a nerve. I find that, and the comments "people send us PMs agreeing with us and wanting to work with us", worrying. That is not a way to bring forth something good and lasting, to stick to agreements without critique and feedback, even if the critique and feedback is harsh and disagreeing. You need to embrace the criticism given to your idea instead of backing away from it, if you're really dedicated to this idea. That's the only way you can make the best of it.
The above applies to pretty much anything, mind, not just this particular situation. The absolute best way to spot the potential pitfalls is to look at an idea through the eyes of someone who sees it completely differently than you.
I said above that I find the general idea interesting, and I'm not afraid to say it publicly even if people I like and respect on this forum disagree with it. I'd like to invite anyone expressing their interest in private to do so in public, as well, without fear of condemnation because of their interest. Express why you'd like to participate (my interest is because I'm interested in conservation breeding, and I see a possibility for such in this idea). Let's hear the other side, now that we've heard lots of good, constructive critique.
I really want to hear it from others, and I really want to discuss this truly openly before making up my mind about possible participation or anything. Secrecy, especially after a start like this, is the ruin of all good internet projects, in my experience. Above all, it's awful for one's reputation. This forum's users are the potential customers of this business effort, after all.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 29, 2012 11:53:41 GMT
I agree with what copigeon said. Also something to keep in mind that you may not have knowledge of the origin of the animals. Wild-catching, as necessary as it is at some point to start a captive line, is essentially poaching and in large scale is very damaging to the native ecosystems of the snails. So you should breed the snails yourselves to ensure no damage is done to the wild population. And breeding, of course, needs to be done carefully to avoid excessive inbreeding. Snails and slugs are more tolerant to inbreeding than many other animals and often do it in nature (especially many rare tree snails would appear to be the result of heavy inbreeding), but that doesn't mean it's a wise route to take for a business. It's very important to keep the gene pool as varied as possible.
I do like the general idea. It could possibly help with conservation breeding, which is something I'm personally very interested in. But I think you're better off discussing this in public instead of PMs on the forums, to consider as many likely problems you'll encounter as possible before starting the actual plans. As said above, snails and slugs are living, breathing creatures that feel pain and fear just as we do. They aren't toys.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 29, 2012 11:32:03 GMT
Reading this made me cry, even if it is a hoax. I always shed tears when I hear of animals dying in the hands of humans, be it a pet that lived a good life and died a natural death or accident (I actually can't read the memorials section of this forum, because I'd cry my face puffy and red; it's kind of embarrassing), or something horrible like live transported food animals or anything... well, you get the picture I guess. My partner makes fun of me for that, but I figure I'm just crying for those who few others, or anyone, cry for. But this... this is beyond horrible. Shows an utter lack of empathy, lack of understanding and lack of respect. This is torture.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 26, 2012 12:49:26 GMT
I went snail-hunting on the old house's balcony (we still own the flat and it's right next door, so I can't call it a proper snail hunting adventure, lol) and I found a little something hidden under a piece of rotten wood in the compost bin that has yet to move to the new balcony: (btw, the spoon in the picture gives no scale to the eggs, it's a HUGE soup spoon meant for serving, not a normal table spoon...) I wonder what comes out of the eggs. I suspect more little sluggies given the placement of the eggs (which would be great, then I have babies of two populations!), but we'll see! Also found a ton of empty Aspersa shells (mostly young ones; shame there were no snails inside) and a couple of tiny shells that I didn't yet pick up to see if there's anybody inside or not. They are shaped more like a GALS shell, only they are smaller than my pinky fingernail. I've seen those empty shells in the soil before, and some are currently in the snailery, too. I'm hoping to find some living ones instead of the mystery shells only. It's such a nice balcony for people who like little critters, but a horror to people who scream when they see something living in the corner of their sunbathing lounge. I'm going to miss it, the new balcony doesn't seem as promising for snail-hunting. Maybe I need to ask the new people to let me come collect all the critters they see, tell them I'm a species-collector, hehe.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 26, 2012 10:39:01 GMT
Oh I'm so sorry. I was wondering how he was doing the other day... those latter pictures really don't look good, rather like decomposing indeed. The moment they stop moving and eating it's usually a sign they won't make it. At least you tried.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 23, 2012 12:04:15 GMT
So adorable baby. The adults, too.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 23, 2012 12:01:28 GMT
I might be interested in buying two, when you are ready to sell them. IF you're selling them, lol!
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 23, 2012 11:56:24 GMT
Are those babies of the same species I'm seeing there? Adorable!
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 23, 2012 10:22:55 GMT
* Chocolate, sweets/candy, cakes, jelly, anything sweet (since I was a toddler - I simply went off sweet stuff at the age of 3). Just the taste - yuck, but I've nothing against my family eating the stuff. Oh and strong minty toothpaste - blugh! Oh wow, someone else doesn't like chocolate! I'm always thought of as a freak since I absolutely hate chocolate with a passion. I just... can't stand the taste of cacao mixed with sugar. I can eat tiny, tiny bits of raw chocolate (the stuff you get from health shops) and I do actually like white chocolate, since it lacks the actual cacao part... but the normal stuff people crave for... YUCK! And, hi to the new posters in the topic! I love reading this, it's nice to hear a bit about people's backgrounds.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 23, 2012 9:55:19 GMT
Oh, poor little thing! He doesn't look so great now. But if he's still eating, there's a good chance he'll make it. He will have a deformation for life, but he looks quite young so likely the damage won't affect him too badly once his shell has grown enough.
Keep him in a place where he can't move too much, as in escape or fall from a high place. In the wild his chances of survival are lower, so it's good you took him in as a real pet now. Keep the container humid to keep his internal organs functioning. And as you're already doing, give him much calcium. You might also consider high-protein foods such as goldfish flakes or tortoise food pellets to aid growth. You can also crush some cuttle on top of cucumber or some other moist food if it seems he's not eating enough plain cuttle. I'd not try to adjust the shell in any way; he will do it himself as is best for him. I'd also keep handling him to a minimum to ensure the shell pieces don't move any more.
The mucus is a good sign, he's protecting himself and starting the repair process. Sometimes really odd shells are found in the wild, hinting that the snails suffered and survived some pretty major damage during their lives, but managed to repair it and carry on with their lives eventually. So, shell damage often isn't as big of a disaster as it looks like, as long as the snail is given rest and resources to repair it.
Keep us posted on his progress!
Edit: You asked about estimates how long it'll take to heal... As said, he looks very young which means he's growing his shell regardless of trauma. What species is he, do you know? I assume he's a native species, born in the wild.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 22, 2012 8:52:41 GMT
Watercress seems to be very nice foliage for tanks. I didn't yet try growing it myself, but that's in the plans next.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 22, 2012 8:35:23 GMT
I'd save a few eggs, just in case the first one doesn't hatch. Two or three. In the odd case ALL hatch just fine it's still possible to keep the babies, or if not, you won't have a huge hassle finding them all homes as it's just a few babies! If you only keep one eggs and it's the one that doesn't hatch... it's a sad day. I learnt this the hard way with my aspersas. But yeah, I also agree with folks that you do get used to getting rid of the eggs in a while. If they're frozen soon after being laid they're not baby snails yet. They're just protein liquid and cells multiplying and specialising, starting to form a baby snail. But it takes days (or weeks or even months, depending on the species) before anything recognisable as a baby snail is found inside. If you save a few eggs you can also inspect the eggs' development more safely, btw. Pick up an egg really carefully and lift it up against a strong light source, then zoom in with a camera. You should be able to get a picture of the baby forming inside, especially at the later stages (earlier there's nothing to see yet, naturally). Or just do it with a microscope, if you have access to one. It's a really awesome thing to witness, especially when hatching time nears. I'm planning to do just that with the next batch of eggs myself, hehe. No matter what species they are, I want some footage throughout the development process.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 22, 2012 8:15:50 GMT
Slug world domination FTW!
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 22, 2012 8:14:42 GMT
Better give them to a better home, then. They're living creatures who suffer if not given the right care, as I'm sure you know all too well.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 22, 2012 8:12:58 GMT
That's wonderful to hear.
The frozen snail option, as sad as it is to petkeepers still, it at least somewhat humane option. Dunno how the snails are frozen... if they're still in their shells it doesn't sound like they're processed like food items, though.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 22, 2012 8:07:24 GMT
Fish roe mostly tastes like seawater. Snail eggs don't even have that flavour.
I'm someone who was raised to eat absolutely anything, and my "disgust" at strange foods is largely ethical so I'd have little problem eating them otherwise... but I can't grasp the attraction of snail eggs. It's not even economical, unlike bird eggs (birds take a lot of resources to grow into adults, unlike snails), so the reason they're eaten must be purely gastronomical curiosity and not tradition out of necessity like for most odd foods (despite being currently considered delicacies) eaten around the world.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 21, 2012 14:47:05 GMT
I started using watercress and corn salad as foliage when I put my baby slugs in the main tank, largely to make sure the HUGE amount of tiny piles of poop they leave everywhere ends up in a place where it's easy to clean up from: the leaves. And it seems to work also for the aspersas, I've seen bigger poop piles in the leaves as well and less on the walls.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 21, 2012 14:41:43 GMT
Adorable little pearly balls of slime I'm sure you'll find them homes... put up a ad on the forums, too, when they're of suitable age to be shipped?
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 21, 2012 14:26:21 GMT
The babies are doing good. They've grown SO much that I moved them to the big tank two days ago, and they've made themselves at home! The adults were curious about the little ones, it seemed. Sadly, Mr. Uni-tentacle seems to have disappeared. As did some others, I am sure, probably consumed by the siblings since I never found any remains. Also, one of the adults just passed away on my hand. She'd been very off-looking all day, and I tried to offer her foods... but she just got slower and slower and wasn't able to hold on to anything... and then I knew she was finally gone as she went stiff. The other one is still going strong, though he's quite old, too. When I found them on Christmas they were just a little bit bigger than the biggest offspring are now, so I guess their age is/was about half a year. My babies have been fed high-protein diet, so I assume they're a bit bigger than wild babies would be. I have a few nice pics of the adults and babies together, I think, need to upload those for posting.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 21, 2012 14:17:00 GMT
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 8, 2012 20:33:38 GMT
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 6, 2012 21:50:49 GMT
Ooh, I'm game. My slugs are one of the worst pests (D. invadens), so they're excellent for your article! Assuming you meant snails and slugs, of course.
I will try to make a good, presentable photo if neatening up the old ones doesn't succeed.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 5, 2012 21:38:12 GMT
Awww such a cutie!
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 5, 2012 21:20:43 GMT
I finally caught a good picture of Mr. Uni-tentacle. He's easy to spot among the bigger siblings! He's doing pretty well, I think. Every time I turn the piece of cucumber over to swap it to a fresh one I see him snacking on with the others. And I think he's grown a little bit from the first time I saw him. At least the camera captures him quite well now! I've done some counting, and I estimate there's about 50 itty bitties in total. It's quite a busy little yoghurt box!
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Post by pinkunicorn on Mar 1, 2012 21:43:45 GMT
You could try some goldfish flakes, or tortoise food, as well. My slugs looooove those. They're a much smaller species, Deroceras invadens. A lot of slugs are carrion eaters, it seems. Some of course living animals, as they hunt, but I understand those aren't as common as the carrion eaters. If it's a detritivorous species he probably eats carrion, too, and then the extra protein might be welcome. I can't see fully in the picture what the tentacles look like. Are they like this slug has? Hidden underneath the mantle? Or is its head always visible, not hidden under the mantle? It could also be a leopard slug, with an unusual pattern. Some slugs also specialise in eating lichen and algae. You can acquire that on wood bark: put a piece of bark covered in green/grey algae into the slug's terrarium and watch for feeding marks in the next days.
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