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Post by snailbutler on Nov 3, 2011 21:44:22 GMT
I think it would be a good idea to have some advice on snail euthanasia on the PetSnails site. It's one of the most important aspects of snail care but it's not covered, as far as I can see. I had to put a snail to sleep for the first time today and although I found a useful thread on the forum, there were still specifics that I had to guess at. I know that this issue divides opinion as it is difficult to prove which method is most humane. However, some basic guidance could be given about how long a snail has to spend in a freezer to ensure death, and prior to that, how long it takes for a snail to go into a deep torpor in a refridgerator (and indeed whether this is beneficial to the snail).
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Nov 3, 2011 22:37:39 GMT
I'm sorry about your snail. Having to euthanize one of our snails is really difficult. And you're right, it isn't really discussed very much.
I'm not sure which threads you may have looked at here (there are a few of them that discuss various methods). WRT freezing, a GALS species native to a tropical or sub-tropical region would shut down its metabolism in the cold a lot quicker than a European snail. Some time in the fridge to put it into estivation prior to the freezer might be an option. But a garden snail can perk up in the fridge and not retract and go dormant at all (I had that happen with one of mine).
FWIW I pass along some info from an acquaintance of mine who did research on predatory land snails: "I was trying to anesthetize them (not necessarily euthanize), which was a royal pain. I was trying to get them to leave their tentacles out (I used scanning electron microscopy to look at the external morphology of the tentacular tips) but nearly ALL of the research on snail anesthesia is on aquatic or marine snails, which can simply aspirate a drug diluted in the water. Terrestrial snails, on the other hand, tend to not want to breathe water. I ended up using a combo of chilled water with succinylcholine chloride and a bit of luck. That got them at least relaxed enough to cut their heads off quickly with a razor blade."
I don't know what succinylcholine chloride is or how easy it is to obtain by someone who is not a researcher. But it shows that there are other alternatives to the freezer.
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Post by snailbutler on Nov 4, 2011 23:22:58 GMT
Thanks for your reply, coyote. It certainly would be useful to find a reliable snail anaesthetic. I've since seen a thread which suggests clove oil may have a similar effect, so I may give that a try (but hopefully not anytime soon) if I can find some. I put my snail (achatina fulica) in the refridgerator for about an hour before putting it in the freezer for about 18 hours. I know that animals can have surprising powers of survival, so I was quite wary of taking the snail out of the freezer too early.
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iloncia
Achatina achatina
Posts: 71
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Post by iloncia on Nov 5, 2011 22:35:41 GMT
Not a very pleasant subject. How about cutting O2 supply, wouldn't it be quicker, just putting a snail into plastic bag and sealing it? Does any of you guys know, what is the least painful way?
I am very sorry about your snail, snailbutler.
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coyote
Archachatina papyracea
Cochleas ego amo
Posts: 2,955
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Post by coyote on Nov 6, 2011 4:26:11 GMT
I don't know if anyone knows of a definite painless method of snail euthanasia that could be performed in the home, without access to veterinary drugs. This page talks about CO2 in rodent euthanasia, and one person experimented by putting his own face into the gas for a very short period and reported that the gas stung his eyes. Whether this would be similarly painful for a snail is unknown.
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Post by saturnfly on Jun 24, 2012 1:02:01 GMT
Am curious why people would need to euthanize their snails? I couldn't imagine freezing them or cutting their heads off. That sounds absolutely horrible.
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Post by pickalilly on Jun 24, 2012 11:00:28 GMT
Am curious why people would need to euthanize their snails? I couldn't imagine freezing them or cutting their heads off. That sounds absolutely horrible. Sometimes snails are in so much agony that it is much kinder to end their life, if they will die anyway in a few painful days. For example, mantle collapse, or being crushed by accident.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Jun 24, 2012 13:22:56 GMT
I decided to euthanise one of my baby slugs a few days ago. Its mouth was swollen and it was apparently in pain. I wanted to do it as quick as possible though. These babies survive over the winter so freezing isn't an option. So my boyfriend crushed the poor little thing. I felt so awful but it was a quicker death than waiting hours possibly in pain. Another, an adult this time, with the same swollen mouth... I almost put him in the freezer, but decided against after all. I went out to do shopping and it had died in the meantime, by vomiting out its gut. Judging by how the body looked like I think it was in pain (its genital was also slightly protruding). Then I wished I had just euthanised it before going out. It looked pretty gruesome.
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Post by pinkunicorn on Jun 24, 2012 13:42:41 GMT
Oh and I don't think any pet owners would cut their snails' heads off. That example above was from a researcher, who had to perform vivisection on snails as part of the research. It's horrible, and I think that's why the researcher in question wanted to cause as little pain to the snails as possible when killing them. I assume they were researching something about the eyes, due to the need of tentacles staying out and the mention of using electron microscope to examine the outside of the eyetips.
I'd actually be interested in knowing more about that research if Coyote has any links etc.?
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Post by saturnfly on Jun 24, 2012 21:49:10 GMT
Am curious why people would need to euthanize their snails? I couldn't imagine freezing them or cutting their heads off. That sounds absolutely horrible. Sometimes snails are in so much agony that it is much kinder to end their life, if they will die anyway in a few painful days. For example, mantle collapse, or being crushed by accident. I didn't even think about that, gosh yeah, that makes sense. I don't think I could do it myself, I would have to let nature take its course. :/
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Post by vallery on Sept 24, 2012 11:44:50 GMT
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Post by pinkunicorn on Sept 27, 2012 15:38:32 GMT
I would keep him and see what happens. If he eats plenty of food and cuttle, it might get repaired. As long as his organs stay moist and he's able to breath, he should be OK.
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Post by graemepryce on Jul 1, 2013 0:23:38 GMT
Snail 'misery' is pretty hard to discern isn't it? After some years as a snail keeper I can only give the experiences I have had and try to learn from everyone else. Personally I give a lot of thanks for sites like this and the internet in general. When a friend bought me my first Tiger Snails many years ago there was nothing like this site to help us!
FREEZING - This is said to be a relatively pleasant death for humans. The cold renders nerve endings and some parts of the brain into a delusional state and after some time it is said to be painless. Whether this occurs for anilmals that have sophisticated systems for dealing with changes in temperature, I am unsure but personally I feel that a death that can take up to 18 hours is distasteful. I don't personally do this.
SUFFOCATION - This MUST cause distress. Though if a snail is distressed anyway, maybe it is less cruel. We should be aware that snails breathe very, very slowly though and will not die in a short time in an airless environment like a human would.
CRUSHING - Instant. If you can bring yourself to cause an instant and massive weight trauma to a snail I am sure the death is instantaneous. They are not even aware that death is approaching and an unsurviveable crushing seems like the quickest way to do it to me. HOWEVER - a large GALS is going to need a pretty big effort to crush it entirely. I have done this with smaller species but I'm still unsure about the ethics of this one. I did it through desperation only.
NON - INTERFERANCE - Who are we to say a snail should have it's life ended? A snail's nervous system is not complex, it only feels pain on a basic level. When it has suffered a trauma that will lead to death it may lose the ability to know or care about discomfort anyway. My Iradaliea died recently and I just put it in an isolation tank and checked on it, sprayed it and kept it warm until it no longer reacted to any stimulus. Some say that in our final hours we experience and understand our mortality in a way we couldn't imagine otherwise. Research has led me to believe that death is not always a terrible experience.
If a snail is dying, has withdrawn deeply and stopped reacting to any stimulus then maybe, just maybe it is not unhappy. We must remember - death is a concept that Humans are the only creature to understand. A snail DOESN'T know that it is dying. Who are we to deprive it of it's last hours?
I stopped euthanasing some time ago. When I am sure a snail is too far gone to be helped I simply remove it from the colony and let nature take it's course.
There have been a couple of occasions when I have been SURE a snail is dying, only for it to sleep a while then live again. We don't always know enough to be certain.
That's my input anyway!
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Cashell
Archachatina puylaerti
Posts: 1,124
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Post by Cashell on Jul 1, 2013 1:03:26 GMT
HOWEVER - a large GALS is going to need a pretty big effort to crush it entirely. I have done this with smaller species but I'm still unsure about the ethics of this one. I did it through desperation only.
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Post by graemepryce on Jul 4, 2013 11:24:09 GMT
I did it with a GALS that was about the same size as a garden snail. Like I said - I did it once only! Take from that what you will! lol
It wasn't too bad at the time because it was one of those cases where the poor little fella had a big swollen limp body and was clearly not going to recover. I had a broken down freezer at the time so I didn't have that much choice.
Not sure I'd do the same now, I'd probably put it in a isolation box in a dark area and just let it fade away if it happened to any of my current GALS.
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Cashell
Archachatina puylaerti
Posts: 1,124
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Post by Cashell on Jul 10, 2013 21:12:39 GMT
I did it with a GALS that was about the same size as a garden snail. Like I said - I did it once only! Take from that what you will! lol It wasn't too bad at the time because it was one of those cases where the poor little fella had a big swollen limp body and was clearly not going to recover. I had a broken down freezer at the time so I didn't have that much choice. Not sure I'd do the same now, I'd probably put it in a isolation box in a dark area and just let it fade away if it happened to any of my current GALS. There's nothing wrong with swiftly killing an animal that won't survive to put it out of it's misery, but bigger animals or snails in this case will yield more gore so it's not recommended for the sissies or faint-of-heart!
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Dumbledore
Achatina immaculata
#heavily caffeinated
Posts: 251
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Post by Dumbledore on Jul 11, 2013 14:07:09 GMT
Yeah, I'd probably put it in a comfortable tank and give it lots of water, trying to make it as comfortable as possible.
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Post by moon on Jul 22, 2013 10:25:02 GMT
Thankyou for the advice graemepryce. Very interesting and makes a lot of sense.
Luckily I've never yet had to euthanase any of my snails, but I don't think I could bring myself to put them in the freezer.
I've had a couple die naturally and it was a quiet, peaceful end, so hopefully they didn't suffer for long.
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