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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 12, 2005 11:16:31 GMT
OMG, OMG! I have just seen my fulica on the side of his tank, and he was coming out of his shell!! Does this ever happen? I really should have taken a photo but i rushed over to save him.
The mantel had come away from the side of the shell and i could see white parts of his body .... his shell was hanging sideways and was actually twisted! So i had to twist his shell back before i got him off the side of the tank....he had a twist in his body!!! How on earth does this happen??? He seems fine now, sliming over to the food bowl!
MY GOD are these little creatures sent to give me a heart attack ...... I can't lose Garry, he's my baby (big baby), my first ever snail.
Anjie,x.
SEARCHmantle_collapse
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Kevin
Archachatina dimidiata
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Post by Kevin on Jul 12, 2005 11:47:16 GMT
Ive never seen my Fulica do this, Ive seen them come far out of their shell though when theyre moving around, further out of they're shells than my other snails can get
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 12, 2005 14:58:00 GMT
thanks Kev but this was more than stretching out! i could see his inside parts! He's sleeping now, hope he's ok.
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Post by Paul on Jul 13, 2005 4:39:22 GMT
I found one of my snails the other day twisted beyond belief, it didn't look comfortable but the mantel was still attached to the shell. If the mantle has torn away the only info I could find was for aquatic snails: www.applesnail.net/content/various/snail_disease.phpabout 2/3rds down the page under "Mantle Collapse" Do you think you could manage to get a picture? I think documenting these things is vitally important. There have been various problems dicussed here and I'm gonna compile everything into the problems section of the website. Once again, it is in the list, lol.
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 13, 2005 19:43:10 GMT
Now thats weird! I twisted him back and gently got him off of the side of the tank and his foot was all soft and floppy. He got himself together and crawled off to sleep and he's fine now. The mantel is back in place again.
I soooo wish i had taken a photo at the time, i've spent so long trying to explain to arno how he was twisted!!! lol. But at the time i was nearly in tears and didn't think to grab the camera. If it happens again i will get a piccie quick before i rescue him!
Anjie,x.
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 16, 2005 11:56:33 GMT
Well Paul, he did it again only this time he isn't as far out of his shell as he was last time! The mantel is only half off the edge of the shell!!! THIS TIME I GOT A PHOTO!!! Hope you can make it out - it was really hard getting a photo in the position he was in. As this is the second time its happened, do you think he has a weakened mantel or something. Anjie,x.
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 16, 2005 14:15:19 GMT
He seems fine though, moving around and eating! Weird......and worrying.
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Post by Paul on Jul 16, 2005 16:04:12 GMT
It doesn't sound too good Did you read that article? It mentions the lung often collapses with the mantle (if that is what it is, and it looks that way) and they may not live too long On a brighter note, it also mentions that the cold getting in is a factor. For land snails I can't imagine this being anywhere near the problem it is for aquatic ones. I wonder if it can be repaired. We use superglue in hospitals instead of stitches. I'm not saying that will work or anything. But, perhaps there is a solution. It's all about what you are prepared to try really. I imagine most owners euthanase snails that are suffering. At the moment though, it seems to be unaffected and it may not be fatal. In the wild I bet it would cause problems with infection etc, but in a well-kept tank it may be fine. Perhaps even long enough for it to heal the problem. I certainly hope so, fingers crossed. I'll keep my eye out for more info but it is unlikely. There have been a variety of problems recently that we're experiencing. Although it is tough, I hope we can make some progress in these areas so we can be of benefit to others. I'm glad you took the pictures, if you don't mind I'll include them on my as yet unwritten problems section. Applesnail.net seem to have done that for aquatic ones, I hope we can do the same for terrestrial species.
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 16, 2005 17:12:22 GMT
Thanks for being straight with me Paul, i did read the atricle and the bit it said about the lung being behind the mantel. When he's not climbing you wouldn't know anything was wrong, he's moving normally and eating so euthanasing him is out of the question at the moment - i couldn't do it anyway - how could i - he's my very first snail and i've had him soo long, from a little tiny baby! Yes Paul you are very very welcome to use the photos on your site, i've managed to take a few more although none of them are really clear, they are the best i can do with my camera. And its hard taking photos through glass lol.
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 17, 2005 19:37:10 GMT
I rushed out today and got him a very shallow tank to stop him climbing and hurting himself further. I've but Brian in with Garry too because they have always been together and are always like this:- Garry is on the right. Fingers crossed for him.
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Post by anjieburdett on Jul 23, 2005 7:27:26 GMT
Just a little update on Garry......he seems to be doing fine, and is eating as much as he every did. I've had some feedback from people who have had this problem with their snails - people seem to think its a muscle wasting problem maybe, who knows. Always seems to be in fulica though!
Anjie,x.
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Post by sezzy5889 on Aug 1, 2005 13:35:25 GMT
I heard that it can be a sign of old age in a snail when the foot comes away from the mantle
x Sarah x
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Post by anjieburdett on Aug 1, 2005 14:53:22 GMT
Thanks Sarah, I heard similar too, but they're not old at all - about a year i suppose - give or take a few months.
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Post by fredrik on Aug 2, 2005 8:37:02 GMT
Hmm, could it be the result of to much food /very nutritious food? I have seen something similar and it has only occured when feeding them a very nutritous food. The ones with the swelled body, were both eating the food as if there weren't going to be any food next time. So my guess is that it could be the result of to much intake, just like us when we eat to much, the stomach will increase. Sorry, didn't know how to express it, but I think you know what I mean...
Oh, I almost forgot, after a couple of hours the body is back to it's normal size.
What do you think, could it be the cause?
/Fredrik
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Post by anjieburdett on Aug 2, 2005 8:58:51 GMT
I know what you mean Fred, but the bodys not swollen as such......the mantel comes away from the sides of the shell and the body pulls out of the shell too far when he climbs and the shell hangs. I've moved them into a very shallow tank and its not happened again so far.
Thanks for your input Fred.
Anjie,x.
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Post by Paul on Aug 4, 2005 8:15:29 GMT
As you may have read, my papyracea has been acting very sluggish and not eating a lot, although he doesn't seem to be losing weight. He's been like that since I got him. I found him twisted so I checked the mantle and everything seems to be ok. Well, today I have just caught him hanging from the lid (very rare for this snail, he hardly does anything) and horror of horrors, he has a collapsed mantle. And it is really severe, it looks like the following picture: you can see down the side of the mantle, along the inner side of the shell. It's no wonder he's been acting very odd. I've no idea what to do really, the applesnail article suggests it is fatal but aquatic snails may be more prone to infection or poisoning because water would get in. I'm hoping he will survive but whether it can be mended I'm not sure, to be honest it isn't likely is it? I'll try and get a picture but my first instinct was to get him down, he was trying to heave himself up, but every time he moved up, he had to relax, probably because he's struggling to pull the shell and have any control over it. I think if it was a sign of old age it would perhaps be more common. Or perhaps older snails are more prone to it. If it is muscle- wasting then some snails, upon reaching old-age may suffer from it as a natural symptom of age. The trouble is, this snail is a very fussy eater, Catherine said that they are fussy, even when active. So far, I have seen it eat a tiny amount of papaya which I practically had to force down it. I just kept persevering, waving the food under its nose. So, how it will find the strength to heal is beyond me. I've not had a great deal of time this week, so still no pictures. But I must get this photographed.
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Post by natrat84 on Aug 4, 2005 8:33:27 GMT
Oh no Did you see what Anjie did with her fulica? Putting him in a very shallow tank so he couldn't climb. I'm not sure if its working hopefully she'll see this when she's on. Hope he heals Nat
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Post by Paul on Aug 4, 2005 8:47:42 GMT
It is the first time I have seen him climb really, he never does it normally. I will find a suitable shallow container though, but the tear is on the left side, where the lungs are so I'm wondering if he is suffering. I'd like to know if the problem in landsnails is as commonly fatal as in aquatic, so I can do the necessary if need be. It sounds a rough way to go.
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Val
Archachatina dimidiata
Posts: 2,498
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Post by Val on Aug 14, 2005 18:32:10 GMT
I was thinking about this today and as general opinions seem to suggest that it might be a muscle wasting problem, perhaps, just perhaps our snails aren't getting enough exercise and the muscles are not developing strongly like they would in the wild. I was imagining, in the wild, how far a snail might travel during the course of the evening & night in search of food - 2 metres? 10 metres? it has to be a great deal further than any of my snails - they only have to go about 2 inches!!!!! My gut feeling is that this could very well be a large contributor to this problem, in fact I am going to look for a way of putting my snails in much bigger accomodation and putting the food a lot further away so that they have to go and get it, also if the food is at one end and burrowing material i.e. moss/coir is at the other end, then they will also have to make their way back again. ;D What d'ya think.
Val x
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Post by anjieburdett on Aug 14, 2005 18:40:01 GMT
Maybe. Hadn't thought about it that way.
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Post by Paul on Aug 14, 2005 18:48:38 GMT
I think you could be right Val, certainly in a lot of cases. Since I've been withholding food more often they are more active. But, in the case of my papyracea, it left France ok, and arrived with a collapsed Mantle. Looking through applesnail.net which seems to be the only site with information it could have been caused by a knock. That seems likely in my case. But more excercise is worth considering definitely for general health.
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Post by mike on Aug 14, 2005 18:37:50 GMT
i had a fulica and his mantle came away from the shell, so i put him in a smaller tank and fed him up and now his mantle seems to be holding out. maybe they just need more food?
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Post by Paul on Sept 5, 2005 3:50:04 GMT
My papyracea started to eat so I decided not to euthanase. But I'm beginning to think I should. In the wild, this snail would be dead by now due to drying out because he is unable to retract properly. Am I prolonging the pain? Anjie's seemed active still, mine has survived for a while so I think land-snails can survive longer than aquatic ones when it comes to this problem, most likely because there is no water to get inside and cause breathing problems and infections. However, I think the quality of life depends on activity and this is related to how severe the problem is. In mine, the whole mantle on the lip side of the snail has detatched. This is now clinging to the body like a sock, rather than being opened out. If I could get it to hang upside down I could get a picture to show you. I think it must be causing breathing problems which is why activity is low. In cases where the snail is still active, perhaps this isn't the end of the road, although they will almost certainly be more susceptible to infection. I had to give him a good chance to recover, especially since there is so little information but now I've finally decided to euthanse. Tomorrow I will attempt to get a picture to help others with this problem and then I'll do the deed. Anjie, hows yours? Has the mantle started to re-seal somehow or is it the same or worse? Also, how active is the snail now? Mike, did yours heal at all and how severe was it?
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Post by sezzy5889 on Sept 5, 2005 10:58:48 GMT
I have the same problem with my Fulica and shes only 7cm :-(
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2005 16:19:06 GMT
i think that if you should at least give the snail a chance to eat and see what happens. try feeding the snail every day, if the snail survives the hard work will be worth it, imagine the snail as a beautiful, happy adult?
my fulica's mantle just went back to where it was and stayed there, infact he can sit upside down on the tank fine. i think maybe its a case of them getting the strength up to hold the mantle to where it should be, or is it to distorted do you think that could never happen?
kind regards
mike
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