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Post by Selena on Dec 16, 2014 15:14:09 GMT
sometimes I see two of my snails sitting close to each other. It looks very romantic and sweet. They explore each other very tender and careful with their stalks and mouth. sometimes they give each other very soft mouth 'kisses.'
sometimes they sit all evening together or follow one another. I love these romantic moments and maybe it would be nice to post in this topic pictures of your snails romantic moments. I can not get enough.
I don't want to disturb them much but i have made some pictures today (apologize for the poor quality of the photographs)   
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734 
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Post by Zorst on Dec 16, 2014 15:20:16 GMT
I Know its great to watch snails interact with each other, and they sure fascinate me and the rug rats. There very sensual in the ways they act with each there far more than we give them credit for.
Zorst
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Post by etana on Dec 16, 2014 15:53:23 GMT
Awww yeah, I love watching snail affection. I was so surprised the first time I saw it in my small snails. Sometimes it's not even sexual at all, it seems they just like touching their friends. And sometimes they have obvious "dates", one is waiting in a hiding place and another one goes there a little later, and they "kiss" on the mouth when they meet.  <3 I also love to see how careful adult snails are with baby snails. It's very sweet. I'm afraid I only have silly photos of snail love, sometimes they make me laugh so hard when their "date" is on rotting food or something. My avatar is from a romantic situation gone bad - the snail tried to approach another one and flirt, and got only cold shell. He looked so disappointed (as you can see!), I had to have a photo. I'll post if I catch real romantic moments  |
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Post by Selena on Dec 16, 2014 16:00:47 GMT
silly pics of snail love are very good for this thread!! I really like to see them. because, i don't know what is romantic or silly, I can not see the difference. If i try to be romantic, i act very silly as well!
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Post by Selena on Dec 16, 2014 16:01:40 GMT
maybe i ment 'snail love' when i created this thread, i changed it already! |
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Post by etana on Dec 16, 2014 16:09:11 GMT
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Post by Selena on Dec 16, 2014 21:35:58 GMT
Hi, thanks I did not see that haha. I checked only actual threads and did not see anything like this. But it is the same. Maybe we can use this thread especially for pictures, i will change the titel again haha.
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Post by etana on Dec 17, 2014 21:14:41 GMT
All right, I'll have my camera ready. |
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Post by muddydragon on Dec 19, 2014 17:15:04 GMT
lovely to see them intraccting and now you know it's time to keep a look out for eggs. one thing i would check though is the species of the pinkish skinned one (on the left in the first and last photo). It could be Achatina immaculata (i have heard reports of them crossbreeding with fulica too so some may be crossbreeds). The reason it may be worth checking is that A. immaculata have a reputation for nibbling on tank mates (and i know you have mentioned scaring on your snails) and you would need extra protein to help discourage this but it could explain a lot of the scars you have seen. (You can't ID by skin colour alone especially in species as variable as A. fulica however the pinkish skin colour is common in immaculata and rare in fulica) To check the species have a look at the columella (see diagram here which shows where to look: www.petsnails.co.uk/documents/species/id-your-snail.html#start) if it's white or blueish white then it's probably A. fulica but if it's even slightly pink it's not A. fulica and it's quite likely it is A. immaculata. |
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Post by Selena on Dec 20, 2014 18:31:10 GMT
Hi Muddydragon,
I don't need to check because i know it is an Achatina I. Immaculata.
But the scars already existe before i put them together with the immaculatas. I have 4 light brown immaculatas and 6 smaller, dark ones.
I never saw an immaculata try to eat tissue from another snail. I also did not know they have that reputation, have you seen it happen with your own immaculatas?
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Post by muddydragon on Dec 21, 2014 10:57:54 GMT
I do not have immaculata snails, the eating other snails is just soemthing i've heard a lot of reports of over the years, some people are fine and nothing ever happens and others have a lot of trouble with it, but fulica themselves can also munch on other fulica from time to time but it's not as commonly heard of. If you've never had any problem with it i wouldn't worry but just something to keep an eye out for if they get protein now and again it shouldn't happen anyway. (also if youre keeping them together try to make sure you don't hatch any eggs from that tank as the two species can hybridise) |
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Post by Selena on Dec 21, 2014 19:17:14 GMT
Hi Muddydragon,
I think with immaculatas (in sounds weird maybe) they can get bored soon. They have a big need for several things to do. You saw it on the pictures: the immaculatas are Always the ones who try new things. They can be also very, very lazy but once they are active, they are active in a strange way comparing to the fulica's. They are more extremely in the things they do. Like they need the challenge
from time to time a found them in strange situations and everytime they try something else. Yesterday an imma woke up after a very long sleep. On the way to his food he started to dig deep hole under the water tank! he stayed there with his head for an hour and after that, he started to eat. What in earth (leteral) he doing?? so maybe if they get bored they starting to eat other snails?
Why is it not okay if the different species will mate and lay eggs? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 22:48:15 GMT
Awe! <3 So cute!
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Post by etana on Dec 22, 2014 16:14:52 GMT
I got some new photos of Arianta love! Once again they had a romantic dinner date on a food plate that has some old food on it. LOL. I will post them when I'm at my computer later tonight. Edit: Here they are  "Dear, there's a red-eyed fruit fly on you." - "Oh my! Is there anything we can do?"  "Indeed there is!! *SMOOOOOCH*" - "Oh but the fl......"  Zooming out a bit, someone seems to feel left out.  Told you I only have silly pics of snail love. |
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Post by Selena on Dec 23, 2014 8:17:57 GMT
aaaah!! Very cute!! haha, it's Always nice to see they pay more attention to each other than on their food! By the way: they have nice dark shells!
Love is in the air, yesterday and the day before yesterday i found two helix aspersa making real love together!! I made pictures!! Unfortunately, the pictures are not very clear. It went dark at the 'end' and i only have a camera on my mobile Phone, with out flashlight
    
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Post by muddydragon on Dec 30, 2014 14:02:13 GMT
Fab photos guys! Why is it not okay if the different species will mate and lay eggs? It's OK for them to mate and lay eggs but it's not really OK to hatch those eggs. If they mate and you freeze the eggs it's not a problem. You don't want the eggs to hatch for a number of reasons: 1. they are different species not breeds and therefore would not normally mate in the wild, in this case due to geographical differences. They can produce fertile hybrid offspring. This can produce unpredictable resuts and in many cases the hybrids can have shorter lifespans or other problems. of course some can be OK too. 2. these hybrids often end up back in the snail trade and eventually sold as a "pure" species. This means that the genetic distinction between the species can end up becoming greatly reduced especially if one of those species goes through a bottleneck event in the trade. |
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Post by Selena on Jan 1, 2015 10:57:00 GMT
Hi Muddydragon,
I don't understand the reason you explained at poit 1. because if it is not natural for different species to mate, they are not able to lay fertile eggs. When it is able,there are enough similarities between the species to have normal offspring. Even, if there is a big difference between the snails in this case, the could not both being classified as 'achatina' because, ovipositon is one of the key points in the classification of the species.
I don't believe geographic differences will be a problem. during the evolution, the same happened all over the world, it is more likely that it will create stronger snails, because of the genetic variation. to keep the snails in captivity, we create inbret and it will also cause week offspring. So this isn't natural as well. Usually animals search for new genes from time to time and if the species are to different to mate, they are not able to have offspring together. Otherwise, everything in nature went wrong.
actually, i am very curious about the results if different species will mate. i will never sale them as a pure specie, but i quess, this is a problem yet? it is a problem with several kinds of pets.
in some cases it is better to have a not pure species. Like achatina fulica white jade: i prefere to have a bit wild in it, because they are much stronger than pure ones.
maybe I just don't understand the importance of racial purity. I prefer a healthy animal on an animal with a pedigree. But i know some people that pedigree is very important. For me it is not important at all.
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Post by etana on Jan 2, 2015 9:27:38 GMT
Silly snail love continues: I think I have three young Arianta attempting a threesome here. I don't think anyone's in the right position for actual mating though, they're all just caressing each other with their love parts out. Want to see pictures?  |
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Jan 2, 2015 10:05:58 GMT
  lol Etana. I've just found some eggs in the Arianta's tank this morning as well as the new snails tank. Seem's everyone is laying eggs here. I'll check the big bulldozers tank again in a bit when I clean them out. The baby bulldozers are doing well and busy practicing Bulldozing though one likes to practice climbing n hanging from the lid of the box. Zorst
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Post by etana on Jan 3, 2015 21:49:53 GMT
It's as though when the day started getting longer again, they've been getting into the mood All this mini baby bulldozer talk is making me smile so much, too! The 3some didn't go well. First two of them excluded the third, who was left watching the two with his bits out and his foot in his mouth, and then the two slipped and fell off the plastic strawberry. Result: many frustrated snails, no successful mating. They were all young though, love isn't easy to learn for even snails I guess... |
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Zorst
Achatina tincta
Posts: 734
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Post by Zorst on Jan 4, 2015 14:08:29 GMT
Thanks for the much needed laugh this morning Etana, I really felt sorry for the amorous snail who was excluded n sat there with his foot in his mouth, though the image made me smile, but I really couldn't stop laughing at the mental image of the other two falling off the plastic strawberry. Ahh well I guess they will have to practice n learn some more. Zorst
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Post by muddydragon on Jan 4, 2015 14:11:11 GMT
Hi Muddydragon, I don't understand the reason you explained at poit 1. because if it is not natural for different species to mate, they are not able to lay fertile eggs. When it is able,there are enough similarities between the species to have normal offspring. Even, if there is a big difference between the snails in this case, the could not both being classified as 'achatina' because, ovipositon is one of the key points in the classification of the species. I don't believe geographic differences will be a problem. during the evolution, the same happened all over the world, it is more likely that it will create stronger snails, because of the genetic variation. to keep the snails in captivity, we create inbret and it will also cause week offspring. So this isn't natural as well. Usually animals search for new genes from time to time and if the species are to different to mate, they are not able to have offspring together. Otherwise, everything in nature went wrong. actually, i am very curious about the results if different species will mate. i will never sale them as a pure specie, but i quess, this is a problem yet? it is a problem with several kinds of pets. in some cases it is better to have a not pure species. Like achatina fulica white jade: i prefere to have a bit wild in it, because they are much stronger than pure ones. maybe I just don't understand the importance of racial purity. I prefer a healthy animal on an animal with a pedigree. But i know some people that pedigree is very important. For me it is not important at all. This is about healthy animals, it's not racial purity they are not races they are species. Even snails from the same species but different subspeices when hybridised have been reported to have shorter lifespans. They are both Achatina (or more properly lissachatina) that is the genus. Geographic separation is one of the main speciation methods, two identical species are separated geographically, over time differences develop in most cases this can lead to incompatibility so mating either produces no offspring or infertile offspring. Sometimes however there is still enough similarity for these species to produce offspring however these offspring are often weaker or less suited for their environment often due to conficting genes therefore these hybrid die earlier and the different species are maintained. Snail hybrids reported in the past have been reported to have shorter lifespans, obviously this is not desirable. Also here is a report on some research on marine animal hybrids where the hybrids are possible but are "inferior" grow slowly/badly live shortened lives: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081013132625.htmOcasionally yes two species hybridising can produce healthier offspring or offspring who are more suited to another envrionment (especially in plants) this is far rarer in animals and is it worth the risk to the health of the snails you breed? when instead it's entirely possible to mix the bloodstock of the same species (importing from another country where possible, keeping "proper" pedigrees so you can see the relatedness) you also have to remeber that due to the slow dispersal of snails inbreeding is more common in nature in snails. You may breed these snails sell them as hybrids but can you guarantee the next person will sell the offspring of those as hybrids? it's irresponsible to risk shortening the lifespan of many captive snails especially if the buyer is unaware they're getting a pet whose life may not be lived out to the full. |
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Post by morningcoffee on Jan 4, 2015 18:58:51 GMT
Completely agree with everything muddy said. Also, because if it is not natural for different species to mate, they are not able to lay fertile eggs. This isn't true - see the many human-created animal hybrids that exist. It's not "natural" for many of these to exist because the parent species would never meet in the wild, but offspring has been able to be produced because of humans putting the two species together. And it's often not a desirable outcome - see, for example, killer bees (Africanized honey bees), which were a human-bred cross between European honey bees and African bees in an attempt to make more manageable and productive bees for beekeeping. Instead, a far more aggressive and defensive bee was produced, with a tendency to swarm. Some of them escaped and have spread widely in the US, killing European honey bees. People have also been killed by them. When you breed between two species that would never meet in natural circumstances, the results are an unpredictable experiment in many ways. Just because two geographically separate species are able to produce offspring doesn't mean that it should be done. |
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Post by Selena on Jan 4, 2015 22:08:23 GMT
Muddydragon and morningcoffee, thanks for the explanation! now i understand! I thougt in taxonomy: Achatina is the specie and the fulica, immaculata etc are different rases of that achatina specie! (muddydragon, you wrote before achatina is a specie, but i pulled the terms interchangeably so i didn;t understand)
i was thinking: achatinas are like most differente cat races can mate, but they are from the same specie (felis catus), So fulica will mate with immaculata it is the same as a cat will mate with a tiger or a horse with a zebra.
with mammalspecies it is usually impossible they will mate, or it is possible, but that's not healthy (to mate a horse with a zebra par example)But though, i forgot: a mammel is much more complex than an invertebrate. it could be more often possible for invertebrate species to mate.
also confusing to me: various types of invertebrates are more difficult to separate than the mammals species. In mammals, you'll see that a tiger is a different kind of animal than a cat. or a human is different than an ape. But snail species, are like rases comparing to mammels,
Sometimes I am so cocky that I even dont check information before i respond  .
this was very educational for me and important that I understand now. I want to know more about taxonomy, it is a very interesting subject, but not in English. Reading in English is very difficult to me, because it is not fonetic
By the way: My different achatina species are sharing a container but so far, they prefer to sit in their own kind. I have a group fulica in one corner and a group immaculatas in a cave. The species also seem different 'characters' to have and sometimes do not understand each other at all. (now i understand why! 
so I do not know whether the species will mix with each other, as long as I have several of each type of adult specimens.
But i was wondering: is it okay to mix an dark immaculata with a light one?
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Post by Selena on Jan 4, 2015 22:59:07 GMT
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<3 
lol Etana. I've just found some eggs in the Arianta's tank this morning as well as the new snails tank. Seem's everyone is laying eggs here. I'll check the big bulldozers tank again in a bit when I clean them out. 
. 
Back on topic: especially for this thread, they formed a hearth with their snail bodies